Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact. All secret became clear

387
“The government cancels secret diplomacy, expressing its firm intention to conduct all negotiations completely openly to all the people, immediately starting to fully publish secret treaties confirmed or concluded by the government of landowners and capitalists from February to November 7 (October 25) 1917. The entire content of these secret treaties, since it is directed, as in most cases, to the delivery of benefits and privileges to Russian landowners and capitalists, to retain or increase the annexation of the Great Russians, the government declares unconditionally and immediately repealed. ”
Decree of the Soviet Government of November 8 (October 26) 1917

“And anyone who hears these words of Mine and does not fulfill them will become like a foolish man who built his house on the sand; and it began to rain, and the rivers poured out, and the winds blew, and lodged upon that house; and he fell, and there was a great fall. ”
Matthew 7: 26, 27




"All secret becomes clear!"


On May 31, 2019, a very important event took place in our country, namely on the fund’s website “Historical memory ”, a document of exceptional importance was finally published - a scanned original of the Non-Aggression Treaty between the USSR and Germany and, most importantly, an additional secret protocol to it. They were provided by the Historical and Documentary Department of the Russian Ministry of Foreign Affairs.


At the conclusion of the Soviet-German treaty. In the photo, from left to right are: Head of the Legal Department of the German Foreign Ministry Friedrich Gauss, German Foreign Minister Joachim von Ribbentrop, Secretary of the CPSU (B.) Joseph Stalin, USSR Foreign Minister Vyacheslav Molotov

Why is this so important? In due time V.I. Lenin said very correct words about the state: “It is strong when the masses know everything, they can judge everything and go on everything consciously” (Lenin, Second All-Russian Congress of Soviets. Soch., Vol. XXII. P. 18-19). However, in our history after the 1917 year, we very often encountered (and continue to encounter) such “moments” when the top of the country, vested with power, seemed to follow Lenin’s precepts in words, but in fact acted secretly from the people and hid from it a very important information for him. And there is no information - there is no conscious attitude to these or other events, there is no adequate conscious reaction to them! For example, the very existence of an additional protocol to the well-known Covenant, the Soviet side constantly denied, even when its German copy was published in the West.

But sewed in a bag can not be hidden. Information about the presence of such a protocol in the society leaked, causing rumors, gossip and speculation and undermining the credibility of the government. But it has been proven that it is the information foundation of society that is extremely important for the normal functioning of society, and its shaking leads to serious consequences.

Therefore, let us once again get acquainted with these important documents and look at them with our own eyes. Now it's finally possible! But I would like to begin my story about these documents with a brief introduction on the attitude to the secret diplomacy of our revolutionaries 1917, headed by V.I. Lenin on the very, so to speak, the dawn of Soviet power.

"Bomb of the Soviets"


And it was so that the activity of the Soviet government began not only with decreeing the most important decisions to end the war and the resolution of the agrarian question in Russia, but also with the publication of secret documents of the tsarist and Provisional Government, since the first decree on peace explicitly said about the abolition of secret diplomacy. For some 5 – 6 weeks, seven collections were printed at once, revealing all the backstage activities of the former Russian diplomacy. First, copies of documents were printed in newspapers. Thus, the secret agreement between Japan and Tsarist Russia from 3 July (20 June) 1916 was disclosed, according to which both parties agreed to oppose any third power that would try to penetrate into China. As for the collections, they were printed texts of agreements concluded in 1916 between England, France and the tsarist government ... on the partition of Turkey; on the payment of money to Romania for participation in the war with Germany; military convention between France and Russia 1892 g .; the Russian-English secret treaty and the 1907 convention, the Russian-German treaty, with the signatures of Nicholas II and Wilhelm II, 1905 about a defensive alliance and much more, just as impartial. In total, more than 100 treaties and various other diplomatic documents were published.

In the West, the publication of these secret documents caused an ambiguous reaction. Social democrats and pacifists welcomed it in every way, but the Entente governments kept silence and even tried to accuse the Soviet government of forgery. And how can you not remember the words of the British public figure Arthur Ponsonby, who said: "It would have been better not to make false declarations that inevitably caused us to be accused of hypocrisy." And they also caused what, in particular, when all these collections of documents came to the West and were republished there.

"A very common practice"


However, as one old Russian proverb says, the body is vapid and the memory is forgotten. Already in the 1920-1930 years, all diplomatic practice returned to normal, although in the USSR the memory of the Leninist principles of diplomacy and the negative attitude towards secret diplomacy, of course, remained.

Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact. All secret became clear

The signing of the German-Estonian and German-Latvian non-aggression treaties. Sit (from left to right) V. Munters, I. von Ribbentrop, C. Selter


At this time, various countries signed a number of pacts aimed at preventing a new war. It:
• Soviet-French non-aggression pact (1935).
• Non-Aggression Pact between Poland and the Soviet Union (1932).
• Anglo-German Declaration (1938).
• Franco-German Declaration (1938).
• Non-Aggression Pact between Germany and Poland (1934).
• Non-Aggression Pact between Germany and Estonia (1939).
• Non-Aggression Pact between Germany and Latvia (1939).
• Non-Aggression Pact between Germany and the Soviet Union (1939).
• Neutrality Pact between the USSR and Japan (1941).
• Non-Aggression Pact and the peaceful settlement of conflicts between Finland and the Soviet Union (1932).

Germany 28 April 1939 also offered to conclude similar non-aggression treaties in Finland, Denmark, Norway and Sweden. But Sweden, Norway and Finland refused this offer. Thus, to talk about the Soviet-German Pact, as something out of the ordinary, hardly makes sense: it is obvious that in those years it was a common practice.

Here and the Non-Aggression Pact between Germany and the Soviet Union, called the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact (by the names of its main signatories), signed on August 23 on 1939, fits perfectly into the general scheme of these agreements. With one single exception ... The fact is that a secret supplementary protocol was attached to it, affecting the interests of a third party without its corresponding notification. It is clear that for a long time its existence and content remained a secret behind seven seals, although rumors about the existence of some additional secret agreements between Germany and the USSR appeared after the signing of this treaty very soon. This was followed by the publication of its text in 1948, in photocopies, and in 1993, in its discovered originals. The USSR denied the very existence of such a document up to the 1989 year.


23 August 1939 of the year. Stalin and Ribbentrop in the Kremlin


"Who gives cheaper, so and the best bargaining goes!"


In Soviet historiography, including the memoirs of Marshal Zhukov and aircraft designer Yakovlev, negotiations between the USSR, England and France, which began in April 1939, and in fact preceded the signing of the Soviet-German pact, for a long time were considered only as a “smoke screen” behind which the “bad West” ”And, above all, malicious British, sought to push Germany and the USSR. However, it is known that the United Kingdom was the first to decide to go to an alliance with the USSR on May 24, and Chamberlain, who feared that Germany would be able to pull the USSR over to his side, sent the British ambassador to Moscow the instructions in which he was ordered to give consent to discussion of a mutual aid pact, as well as discussion of a military convention and possible guarantees for those of the states that could be attacked by Germany. At the same time, the Anglo-French project took into account the Soviet proposals made at the April 27 negotiations.

However, on May 31, at the session of the USSR Supreme Council, Molotov criticized Britain and France, who seem to be making concessions, but at the same time do not want to give guarantees to the Baltic states. Therefore, Molotov said that "we do not at all consider it necessary to abandon business ties" with Germany and Italy. That is, a signal was given to all interested parties: who will give the most, with that, they will sign an agreement.

The draft agreement of 27 in May (with the new Soviet amendments already in June of 2) provided for its entry into force in the following circumstances:
- in the case of an attack by a European state (of course, Germany was meant) to one of the signatories to the treaty;
- in the event of a German attack on Belgium, Greece, Turkey, Romania, Poland, Latvia, Estonia or Finland;
- and if one of the contracting parties is involved in a war as a result of the assistance provided at the request of a third country.

1 July, Great Britain and France agreed to give guarantees to the Baltic states as well (which the Soviet representatives insisted on at the talks), and on July 8 they felt that the treaty with the USSR was mostly agreed. Here again followed the new proposals from the USSR, but on July 19 the British government decided to agree to any negotiations, if only to complicate the Soviet-German rapprochement. It was hoped to prolong the negotiations until the autumn, so that Germany, due to weather conditions alone, would not decide to start a war. 23 July was decided to start negotiations of military missions before the signing of a political agreement. But these negotiations were slow because of the lack of trust of the participants to each other.

Meanwhile, on July 1, Moscow offered Germany to prove the seriousness of its approach to improving relations with the USSR by signing a corresponding agreement. 3 July Hitler said "yes", so now it remained only to balance the interests of the parties. 18 July Germany received a list of possible deliveries of products from the USSR, and a month later (17 August) Germany announced that it accepted all the proposals of the USSR and in turn offered to force negotiations, for which Ribbentrop was supposed to come to Moscow. As a result, the seven-point non-aggression pact of August 23 was signed at two in the morning in the Kremlin. There was also a meeting between Ribbentrop and Stalin, at which the latter, according to his personal interpreter V. Pavlov, said that additional agreements are needed for this agreement, about which we will not publish anything anywhere, after which he told him his vision of a future secret protocol on division of areas of mutual interest of the USSR and Germany.


The text of the "secret protocol", page 1


A reception followed with abundant libations in the best traditions of the Russian hospitality with numerous toasts, which lasted until five in the morning. They drank for Hitler, for the German people, in a word, everything was as usual here in Russia, when the horsemen of the nobles and the princes thought that their business burned out. Well, Hitler was extremely pleased with the announcement of the signing of the treaty, since he had long ago decided to attack Poland and his hands for this act of aggression were now completely untied. Well, he gave more, but in the end he received more. In addition, he knew in advance that all this was “not for long”, and if so, whatsoever he did after signing the USSR Pact is only a small temporary “difficulty”. Well, the Soviet-French-British negotiations were then automatically terminated. The USSR found itself an understandable and creditworthy ally, at least for a while. The USSR Supreme Soviet ratified the treaty a week after it was signed, while the presence of a “secret additional protocol” was also hidden from the deputies. And the very next day after its ratification, September 1 1939, Hitler's Germany committed an act of aggression against Poland.


The text of the "secret protocol", page 2


Discussion of the consequences


Well, there were a lot of consequences of the signing of the Covenant, and they were all different, and at different times different consequences played different roles, which made their assessment difficult. There are several points of view on the implications of this Pact, both among Russian and Russian researchers in Russia and abroad. However, it makes sense for the time being to limit ourselves to a purely external review of the events that followed its signing.

Let's start with the statement about him M.I. Kalinin, who declared: “At the moment when it seemed that the aggressor’s hand, as Cheberlelen thought, was already carried over the Soviet Union ... we concluded a pact with Germany”, which “was one of the most brilliant ... acts of our leadership, especially comrade. Stalin. " This statement does not characterize our all-Union headman from the best side, but what else could he say? Another would be even strange ... The fact is that there was no question of any aggression from Germany against the USSR, even in alliance with Poland, the military potential of these two countries was not comparable with the Soviet one. They could not attack the USSR even after the defeat of Poland, or rather, after it, since in the fall it was ahead of the autumn thaw and Russian winter. After the Polish campaign, Germany had only two weeks to bomb, and Tanks T-IV in the Wehrmacht was considered almost piece by piece. It is important to understand the following: it is profitable (and possible) to frighten your people with the threat of war, since frightened people are easier to manage, but the country's leadership itself has no right to fall into the hook of its own propaganda!


"Prussian vassalage Moscow." Caricature from the Polish newspaper Mukha, 8 September 1939. Under it is written: “We have signed a pact to you, Ribbentrop. You will give us a kiss, take a pact, and what we will do next is something we will think about. ”


Meanwhile, the USSR began not only trade supplies from Germany, but also tried to show it its “good attitude” in the cultural field. The movie “Alexander Nevsky” was released on screens and was removed from the rental, articles about the horrors of the Gestapo were no longer published in newspapers, and “cannibal”, “bloody maniac” and “underdog of Hitler”, as if by magic, became the “führer of the German nation” and “ Chancellor of the German people. " The cartoons on him, of course, immediately disappeared, and Pravda began to accuse France and England of fomenting war and print articles about the starving British workers. A similar turn on 180 degrees, of course, did not go unnoticed by a certain part of Soviet citizens, but the vigilance of the “bodies” was quickly “all those who chatted” sent “where necessary”. But on the other hand, the Soviet people clearly breathed more freely, and this is an indisputable fact.

But at the other end of Eurasia, the signing of the Pact led ... to the fall of the Japanese government cabinet! After all, it was precisely at this time that battles were fought on the Khalkhin-Gol River, and the Japanese hoped for Germany as their ally and partner along the axis of Rome - Berlin - Tokyo. And suddenly Hitler signs a contract with the Russians, even without warning the Japanese! As a result of August 25, 1939 was followed by protest by the Minister of Foreign Affairs of the Japanese Empire, Arita Hachiro, to Germany’s ambassador to Tokyo over the signing of this treaty. It said that "the agreement on the ... spirit is contrary to the anti-Comintern agreement." But all these were just empty words, because already on August 28, the Japanese government, which was striving for war against the USSR, resigned on August 1939.

The “Liberation March” of 17 of September of 1939 of the year, which completely eliminated (and for the umpteenth time!) Polish statehood and caused direct accusations of the USSR in alliance with Hitler and in military aggression in the West, was extremely ambiguous. On the other hand, the fact that our troops stopped at the Curzon Line, and the annexed territories were formerly part of the Russian Empire, to a certain extent corresponded to the understanding of the situation by the governments of England and France, and therefore remained without any special consequences. The consequences of the Winter War with Finland were more serious: the American embargo, the freezing of Soviet holdings in US banks, and the expulsion of the USSR from the League of Nations should be mentioned here. And nevertheless, even in this there was a certain positive moment, not obvious at this time, but then it played into our hands after the German attack on the USSR.


Caricature of the British newspaper "Evening Standard" on the partition of Poland. Hitler: “Garbage of society, if I am not mistaken?” Stalin: “Bloody killer of workers, dare I guess?” (Evening Standard, 20.09.1939). And then one of them attacked the other, and ... what could the British think of this? "Very unsportsmanlike!" For them, this is just a terrible accusation.


The fact is that Western propaganda poured dirt on the USSR after this, trying to present him as an ally of Hitler in all his vile deeds, that after 22 June 1941, Germany’s attack on “yesterday’s ally” turned out to be the last stage of moral degradation. In the eyes of the peoples of the whole world, the USSR immediately became a sacrifice of the “vilest aggression”, and the Pact ... immediately became understandable and necessary for everyone to take. That is, world public opinion first turned its back on us, and then sharply - face! But, we emphasize that this all took place even before the “Secret Additional Protocol” became public ...

"Do not bring prices to the temple poland!"


As for the “protocol”, it described the “boundaries of the spheres of interests” of the contracting parties “in the event of a territorial-political reorganization” of the Baltic States and Poland. At the same time, Latvia and Estonia were in the sphere of interests of the USSR, while Lithuania passed over the city of Vilnius (at that time belonged to Poland), and in Poland the border of interests of the parties passed along the Narev, Vistula and San rivers. That is, although it was not stated right there, it was clear what was meant by the phrase “territorial and political reorganization” and it was clear that it could be realized only by war. The same applied to the very important issue of the independence of Poland, according to the text of the protocol, with the consent of the parties, it could “be finally clarified” later. The USSR declared its interest in Bessarabia, and Germany - the absence of such interest. That is, the two countries behind the back of third countries agreed, bashfully bypassing the details, about annexing the territories of several independent countries at once, and this could only be achieved through war. The document did not specify who will start this war and who will end it. It was only about where the victorious armies of the arms».


Explanation of the "secret protocol"


It turns out that the USSR, which had previously proclaimed the rejection of annexations and secret diplomacy publicly, by necessity ... returned to this "tsarist" policy again, which was in clear contradiction with the theory and practice of Marxist-Leninist doctrine, that is, with the ideology proclaimed and high tribunes, and from the pages of the newspaper "Pravda". That is, if we have no ideology as such, and we proclaim only, so to speak, the primacy of universal human values, then this is one thing, and why not grab on the occasion of an alien land? But if we have at the forefront of the primacy of building a society of social justice, then here we should be an example of everything and ... "not to bring to the church the prices of beasts"!

It is clear that at that time our country probably had no other way out. Without this protocol, Hitler would not have started a war with Poland, we would not have entered Western Ukraine and Belarus, would not have started a war with Finland, but in the end ... world public opinion could not turn in our direction, and we and would be left alone with Germany. But ... it was necessary to disavow this document immediately after the death of Stalin. And after all, the same Khrushchev had a convenient moment for this: the Twentieth Congress of the CPSU, the condemnation of the “personality cult”, so what was the cost of bringing this ill-fated protocol here? And everyone, both in the country and abroad, would see in it a worthy return to the Leninist principles of foreign policy, that is, a condemnation of secret diplomacy. But this was not done, and it became a serious foreign policy mistake of the Soviet leadership for many years!

Использованная литература:
1. The Soviet original Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact was first published // Lenta.ru. 2 June 2019.
2. A. Pronin. Soviet-German Agreements 1939 of the Year: Origins and Consequences (monograph) // International Historical Journal, No. 11, September-October 2000.
3. B. Khavkin. On the history of publication of Soviet texts of Soviet-German secret documents 1939 — 1941. Forum of the latest Eastern European history and culture. - Russian edition. No. 1, 2007.
4. Doroshenko V.L., Pavlova I.V., Raak R.Ch. No Myth: Stalin's Speech 19 August 1939 // Questions of History, 2005, No. 8.
387 comments
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  1. -51
    10 June 2019 18: 03
    A wonderful phrase from the "Decree of the Soviet Government of November 8 (October 26) 1917":
    "... The entire content of these secret treaties, insofar as it is aimed ... at keeping or increasing the annexations of the Great Russians, the government declares unconditionally and immediately canceled ..." The Soviets directly declare that they are against the increase in the annexations of the Great Russians, that is, Russians. The Soviet government does not object to the annexations of other nations. Conclusion: the Soviet is always Russophobe.
    1. +19
      10 June 2019 18: 19
      What do you smoke?
      1. -71
        10 June 2019 18: 29
        All right, he says. There was no worse enemy for the Russian man than Soviet Bolshevism.
        1. +22
          10 June 2019 20: 01
          Soviet Bolshevism ... do you even understand what you are writing about.
        2. +33
          10 June 2019 20: 31
          All is correct. There is no worse enemy for a Russian than Russian liberalism of the 21st century.
          So it will be more true.
        3. -2
          11 June 2019 19: 19
          Quote: Corn
          There was no worse enemy for the Russian man than Soviet Bolshevism.
          Here is another Russian saying:
          Valeria Novodvorskaya - Manic-depressive psychosis! That's why we are so cool fighting! ... Classics of the genre - Great Patriotic War. Here is the formula for our mass heroism! The country was finally released from the chain, and, not having the courage to cut her throat to her own Stalin and his executioners, enthusiastically grabbed Hitler and his monsters in the throat when the Master, Big Brother, Uncle Joe told her: “Fas!” ...
    2. -41
      10 June 2019 19: 19
      Conclusion: Soviet is always Russophobe.
      well .. Kuban from Ukraine was cut off and the city of Khmelnitsky on the contrary, from Russia to Ukraine, bash on bash?
      1. +10
        10 June 2019 19: 52
        Quote: Igoresha
        Conclusion: Soviet is always Russophobe.
        well .. Kuban from Ukraine was cut off and the city of Khmelnitsky on the contrary, from Russia to Ukraine, bash on bash?

        Ukraine is part of Russia. These are different things.
      2. +11
        11 June 2019 14: 11
        I live in the Kuban myself. And I dare to assure her that she was never part of Ukraine
        1. +3
          11 June 2019 14: 55
          Do you know fellow countryman that I noticed. How did the residents of the Kuban, inserting Ukrainian words into the conversation, and often speaking in surzhik treated some "refugees" from there in 2014? They drove them from the villages with filthy brooms, those who were offered work, and they tried to live here for free hi
          1. +5
            11 June 2019 21: 41
            In the Kuban, most people now speak normal Russian. A small part, mainly the rural population of older ages, plus a certain number of representatives of the humanitarian intelligentsia, prone to shocking, use a little ball. The balachka is similar to surzhik, but also differs from it quite strongly.
            1. -1
              18 June 2019 18: 58
              Quote: Sergej1972
              A small part, mainly the rural population of older ages, plus a certain number of representatives of the humanitarian intelligentsia, prone to shocking, use a little ball.
              People from Kherson, Poltava, Ekaterinodar province were resettled there. therefore, the surzhik-like dialect, nevertheless, skips. Especially in the outback.
      3. +4
        11 June 2019 17: 21
        Quote: Igoresha
        well .. Kuban from Ukraine cut off

        and when did the Kuban enter Ukraine? do not count Liliput territorial entities 1918
      4. +3
        11 June 2019 21: 37
        Khmelnitsky (Proskurov) city in central Ukraine. Kuban has never been a part of Little Russia, a part of the Ukrainian SSR. You, "Igor", do not know history and geography.
    3. -22
      10 June 2019 20: 06
      Decree of the II All-Russian Congress of Soviets of October 26 / November 8 1917:
      "The entire content of these secret treaties, insofar as it is directed ... to the retention or increase of annexations Great Russians, The Government declares unconditionally and immediately canceled. "

      The text of the decree was written personally by Vladimir Ulyanov, who has a maternal grandfather, Israel Blank, on whose estate Kukushkino spent every summer with the children of Ilya Ulyanov and Maria Blank.
      https://harmfulgrumpy.livejournal.com/1403416.html

      Like - to keep or increase the annexations of Little Russians, Belarusians, Georgians, Armenians, Turkmen or Kyrgyz, the decree of the Jewish composition of the Council of People's Commissars does not apply.
      1. -16
        10 June 2019 22: 36
        So.
        He wrote a lot more.
        Read - you gasp.
        And now again some iron teeth are grinning, they want to kill us again according to Leninist principles.
        1. +1
          14 June 2019 00: 48
          Quote: Mestny
          And now again some iron teeth are grinning, they want to kill us again according to Leninist principles.

          Who are we? belay
    4. -7
      11 June 2019 04: 28
      [/ quote] Without this protocol, Hitler would not have started a war with Poland, we would not have entered Western Ukraine and Belarus, would not have started a war with Finland, and in the end ... world public opinion might not have turned in our direction , and we would have remained face to face with Germany. [quote]

      How would the USSR be left face to face with Germany? Would she drop troops to Leningrad?
      1. +26
        11 June 2019 07: 13
        The author simply fulfills the soldering ..
        For some reason, some believe that they have the right to judge those times on the basis of * today's * knowledge. Most CIA agents. Who always know best whom and what to do, especially in the past.
        In the West, they published both the pact and the secret application signed by GERMAN MOLOTOV in German.
        What the author published is in no way * a section of Europe *. This is the definition of * zones of influence *, and no more.
        The advocates of democracies openly misinterpret the meaning and text of the * Covenant * and the secret supplement.
        Today, the United States has divided the globe into its zones of interests, right up to Central Asia and the Caspian, and NOTHING, for the Libero-Democrats this is normal.
        The comments of the anti-Semites are amazing. Do you believe in God? But he is a JEWISH.
        1. +1
          19 June 2019 19: 30
          Little of. The signatories did not write the posts they held in the government. Maybe it's shoemakers, or janitors. What kind of document if a position in the government is not written. Treaty with the Americans - written by the US Secretary such and such. Minister, or deputy minister such and such.
      2. +7
        11 June 2019 11: 27
        Quote: Jura 27
        How would the USSR be left face to face with Germany?

        The author never proved his claim:
        VS: Were it not for this protocol, Hitler would not have started a war with Poland, we would not have entered Western Ukraine and Belarus,

        WHY Hitler would not have launched an attack on Poland, planned as early as APRIL 1939, i.e. much earlier than the Rib-Molotov Pact? belay
        Why on earth would the USSR begin ... to defend Poland, without even having a common border with Germany? request

        SAMA Poland was categorically against this, there was no obligation on the part of the USSR towards Poland in this regard.

        The author's statement about the "condemnation by the West" of the liberation of the West is also not true Ukraine and Belarus Red Army: It was NOT like that! France and England DO NOT declare war USSR, as did this with Germany.

        There was nothing shameful in the Covenant and the Protocol: the spheres of influence stipulated there in the event of something are common practice. The war is NOT indicated there: the author is wrong.

        As for the condemnation of the "secret" agreements by the Bolsheviks, this is their usual transcendental hypocrisy and lies: the FIRST their agreement (Brest treason) was secret: September 1918 years they went to the conclusion additional secret agreements to br peace with Germany to sell the motherland to the invaders. And only the Entente canceled them.
        1. -5
          11 June 2019 17: 16
          [/ quote] WHY Hitler would not have launched an attack on Poland, planned as early as APRIL 1939, i.e. much earlier than the Rib-Molotov Pact? [quote]

          Plans are one thing, but reality is another. If the USSR had previously condemned future aggression against Poland and declared that it would mobilize troops in the event of a German attack and, at a minimum, take protection of the population of territories to the Curzon line, then Germany would be threatened by a war on two fronts, and Adik remembered how this ended.
          In addition, blitzkriegs require oil, and a lot. And in the middle of 39g, only approx. 20% benzene was produced at synthesis plants. The remaining oil was supplied by Romania and the USSR. Romania, while gravitating towards France, the USSR would cut off supplies to zero. And without oil, you won’t fight for a long time, either you would have to attack Romania, and this would be just in time, besides, the USSR could invade the region of the Romanian oil fields (as an ally).
          1. +1
            12 June 2019 06: 34
            Quote: Jura 27
            Plans are one thing, but reality is other

            as we see (1 Sep 39) -no.
            Quote: Jura 27
            If the USSR had previously condemned future aggression against Poland and would have declared that it would mobilize troops in the event of a German attack and, at a minimum, would take under its protection the population of the territories to the Curzon line

            With what a fright the USSR would declare ... aggression against Poland (what did you propose?).
            HOW would Poland and the West take it?
            Quote: Jura 27
            then Germany was threatened by a war on two fronts

            England and France in advance and declared support for Poland and two fronts existed, but Adik was not afraid.
            Quote: Jura 27
            USSR could invade the region of the Romanian oil fields ally).

            Whose?
            1. -1
              12 June 2019 07: 02
              [/ quote] as we see (1 Sep 39) -no. [quote]

              Before September 1, something happened (see scan of the dock in the post).
              There is such a thing in politics (sometimes) - honesty and openness. Based on honesty, the USSR would have declared a possible German aggression against Poland and the consequences for Germany in the event of aggression. And both Poland and England and France would normally perceive - that the USSR is definitely not on the side of the Nazis.
              Poland is the second front. This is not even funny. Here is the USSR, the second front, this is serious, especially for Germany in mid-1939.
              As an ally of Romania, of course.
              1. +1
                12 June 2019 08: 56
                Quote: Jura 27
                Something happened before September 1st

                yes, there was a plan of attack on poland (before the pact). It is implemented
                Quote: Jura 27
                Based on honesty, the USSR would have declared a possible German aggression against Poland and the consequences for Germany in the event of aggression

                Give examples of such "warnings". Especially in relation to such a hostile state-va, which Poland was for the USSR.
                Where did Poland ask for one?
                Quote: Jura 27
                And both Poland and England and France would normally perceive - that the USSR is definitely not on the side of the Nazis.

                Statement of .... occupation Poland and? belay
                Quote: Jura 27
                Poland is the second front. It's not even funny

                Match army P and G and stop laughing.
                Quote: Jura 27
                As an ally of Romania, of course.

                Invade (your definition) to ... an ally ?! belay
                And - Romania categorically rejected any proposals of the USSR in the field of defense, mortally fearing it. And not in vain, she stole Bessarabia in 1918 and remembered this ..... Like the USSR ....
                1. -2
                  12 June 2019 10: 19
                  It was implemented because a pact happened, that is, the USSR gave the Nazis permission to attack Poland.
                  A warning would not be for Poland, but for the Nazis, is it really so hard to understand.
                  The statement that if the Nazis advance in Poland, then they will meet Soviet troops there, with all the ensuing consequences.
                  Well, then compare if you are not in the know.
                  Where Romania (and Poland) would have gone if Germany had launched the invasion.
                  1. +3
                    13 June 2019 08: 01
                    Quote: Jura 27
                    It was implemented because a pact happened, that is, the USSR gave the Nazis permission to attack Poland.

                    megillah.....
                    1. WHERE did the USSR give this permission? Read the text of the Agreement, finally.


                    2. WHERE was the USSR obligated to stand on the side of Poland, and with what fright would he do it, and even contrary to Poland’s desire? WHY did he need this ?!

                    Hitler had absolutely nothing to fear before the pact or after.
                    Quote: Jura 27
                    A warning would not be for Poland, but for the Nazis, is it really so hard to understand.

                    Warning Occupation East. parts of Poland - not for ... Poland? belay Do you even hear yourself?
                    Where are examples of such warnings? can you bring? No you can not.
                    Quote: Jura 27
                    Well, then compare if you are not in the know.

                    I know. You are obviously not.
                    Quote: Jura 27
                    Wherever Romania would be) if Germany started the invasion.

                    Yes, anywhere, but not under the USSR. Which is what happened. What's not clear?
                    1. -1
                      13 June 2019 16: 49
                      1. Scans in the post are given, read, enjoy.
                      2. This option, I propose, is to prevent Nazi aggression. Poland would have no choice if its troops were defeated by the Germans.
                      3. Of course, Adik had absolutely nothing to fear, except for a war on two fronts, and on the eastern front, not only Poland, but also the USSR.
                      No, but what? Germany was strong in the middle of 39g, it didn’t care that it had no oil and grain, and it was ready to easily fight with England, France and the USSR at the same time, not to mention some Poland and Romania there.
                      4. Teach the materiel about the balance of power between Germany and Poland.
                      5. And where would Romania go if Germany had launched combat operations to seize the oil fields.
        2. 0
          19 June 2019 19: 33
          So after all, this agreement was about protecting the state, and not about enrichment.
      3. 0
        11 June 2019 17: 25
        Quote: Jura 27
        How would the USSR be left face to face with Germany?

        as well as how he stayed in 1941. Do not say that England fought with Germany, or Yusashka. only the Soviet Union fought with Germany, the rest stood nearby
        1. -2
          12 June 2019 07: 12
          Quote: aglet
          Quote: Jura 27
          How would the USSR be left face to face with Germany?

          as well as how he stayed in 1941. Do not say that England fought with Germany, or Yusashka. only the Soviet Union fought with Germany, the rest stood nearby

          He was left almost alone, as a result of the RM pact and secret application to it.
          But what did England and the mattresses do? Maybe the Germans supplied large quantities of strategic materials, like the USSR in 39-41?
          1. +1
            13 June 2019 10: 27
            Quote: Jura 27
            But what did England and the mattresses do? Maybe the Germans supplied large quantities of strategic materials, like the USSR in 39-41?

            I won’t say anything about England, I didn’t look for it, and the mattresses, as you gently call them, supplied gas, Ford and GM factory cars, ATI field phones and radio stations to the end of the war, Dupont worked closely with IG Farben, and this not everything, just like that, offhand, I don’t remember, but I don’t want to search. and what and how many strategic materials did the ussr of Germany supply, do you know? one neutral Sweden supplied more ores, bearings and weapons. and secret protocols with Germany were concluded by all states that entered into agreements with Germany at that time, they were simply called differently
            1. -3
              13 June 2019 16: 36
              Quote: aglet
              Quote: Jura 27
              But what did England and the mattresses do? Maybe the Germans supplied large quantities of strategic materials, like the USSR in 39-41?

              I won’t say anything about England, I didn’t look for it, and the mattresses, as you gently call them, supplied gas, Ford and GM factory cars, ATI field phones and radio stations to the end of the war, Dupont worked closely with IG Farben, and this not everything, just like that, offhand, I don’t remember, but I don’t want to search. and what and how many strategic materials did the ussr of Germany supply, do you know? one neutral Sweden supplied more ores, bearings and weapons. and secret protocols with Germany were concluded by all states that entered into agreements with Germany at that time, they were simply called differently

              It's good that at least you don't have data on England, otherwise your, not a measure of exuberant imagination, about American gasoline, until the end of the war for the Germans - I was impressed. I just see how amerskie fuel tankers, from the Omaha beach, went to refuel the German tanks.
              Amer automobile plants, if cho, were nationalized, - learn the materiel before writing nonsense.
              Well, at the same time, the materiel about the Soviet deliveries of Germany in 39-41, it would also be nice to study for you. You look at old age and find out what strategic materials were there.
              1. +1
                14 June 2019 09: 03
                Quote: Jura 27
                You look at old age and find out what strategic materials were there

                American gasoline went through Spain to Germany until the end of the war, the so-called "nationalized" factories were shyly bypassed by American and British aviation, which smashed into dust, for example, Dresden. strategic, what are they? cake? flax? oats ?, metal ores, one small Sweden delivered in 2 years 4 times more than the USSR. I will not advise you to read more and different literature - for you, this is obviously an impossible task
              2. 0
                16 August 2019 14: 13
                You need to learn the materiel like America traded with Germany during the war.
      4. +2
        14 June 2019 04: 48
        Quote: Jura 27
        Would she drop troops to Leningrad?

        If they had not signed a non-aggression pact with Hitler, perhaps the Poles, together with the Germans, tried to enter Leningrad while the Japanese fettered our troops in the Danube East. The year before, Poland, with the help of Germany and Hungary, defeated Czechoslovakia. And only the intervention of the USSR did not allow to realize the Polish Anschluss of Lithuania. Because of this, Poland quarreled with Hitler.
        1. -3
          14 June 2019 04: 58
          Quote: gsev
          Quote: Jura 27
          Would she drop troops to Leningrad?

          If they had not signed a non-aggression pact with Hitler, perhaps the Poles, together with the Germans, tried to enter Leningrad while the Japanese fettered our troops in the Danube East. The year before, Poland, with the help of Germany and Hungary, defeated Czechoslovakia. And only the intervention of the USSR did not allow to realize the Polish Anschluss of Lithuania. Because of this, Poland quarreled with Hitler.

          You have a fantasy however !!!!! I take off my hat, before such a flight of thought hi .
          1. +2
            14 June 2019 22: 25
            Quote: Jura 27
            Fantasy you however

            You did not know that in addition to the Germans, Poles and Hungarians took part in the division of Czechoslovakia? That the Poles had already organized and carried out a provocation reporting that the Polish officer had been killed by the Lithuanians in anticipation of their invasion of Lithuania until August 1939. Only Hitler’s caution and Stalin’s firmness did not give the Poles a reason to start World War II in Europe with an attack on Lithuania. I hope you know that the Second World War in 2 was already blazing in China, and the Japanese in its course alone from the USSR suffered greater losses than Germany from Poland. Where am I wrong, where am I falsifying a story or misleading you?
  2. -60
    10 June 2019 18: 12
    The Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact is an agreement of two predators, Nazi and Soviet imperialism, aimed at redivision of the world. Evidence of this is the secret protocols and the map with the spheres of influence.

    It was not for nothing that Ribbentrop later recalled the atmosphere of this important act: "I was as if I was surrounded by my old party comrades." Well, then the friends quarreled, and the Soviet and German peoples had to pay millions of lives for the mistakes of the "friends".
    1940 showed what happens if the Anglo-French are at war with the Germans without a Russian front,
    1941 showed what happens to the Russian front when there is no Anglo-French.
    that is why it is necessary to fight the Germans with 2 fronts, and far from being fools, pre-revolutionary diplomats created the Entente.
    And alone - huge sacrifices and terrible damage
    1. +53
      10 June 2019 18: 22
      Under this pact, the USSR returned to the so-called. Curzon lines, i.e. regained the territory of Western Belarus and Ukraine unfairly captured by Poland. And what about the Munich agreement then, was that a children's party?
      1. +36
        10 June 2019 19: 51
        And what about the Munich agreement
        The author modestly kept silent. By the way, today this is not the first anti-adviser. Preparing for next Thursday? There’s nothing to be proud of today, so again the Union will begin to pour mud on the Union!
        1. -35
          10 June 2019 22: 39
          Which union?
          The one you are breathing about here exists only in the minds of your like-minded people.
          The real alliance was not like that at all.
          1. -3
            11 June 2019 17: 26
            Quote: Mestny
            The real alliance was not like that at all.

            how do you know about this?
        2. +17
          10 June 2019 23: 09
          Quote: Gardamir
          And what about the Munich agreement
          The author modestly kept silent. By the way, today this is not the first anti-adviser. Preparing for next Thursday? There’s nothing to be proud of today, so again the Union will begin to pour mud on the Union!

          The sample of the document presented by the author for review also raises doubts. it lacks the attributes typical of secret office work. There is no stamp of secrecy, which should not be lower than "Special importance" or "Sov.secretno" as a last resort, there is no copy number or designation that the document is in a single copy. The Foreign Ministry documents, probably at that time, had numbered forms with state attributes (coat of arms and name of the country in color) and did not flop on tissue paper with a colorless coat of arms imprint. There is an understanding that this addition to the protocol should be executed in two languages ​​(Russian and German) in order to avoid further misunderstandings and references to translation errors, and also signed by the parties to the pact. Anyway, Vissarionich had to familiarize himself with the document and leave his visa on it, and here, except for Molotov and Ribbentrop's squiggles, there is nothing and it looks like no one else was holding or seeing this document. With an old typewriter and a stamp with a more or less contoured imprint of the USSR coat of arms, such "" "super secret additional applications" "" can be applied in a couple of hours in ten varieties. In short, the revealed sample of the protocol clearly does not match the original and looks more like a very low-quality fake. Especially my opinion ... request
          1. +7
            10 June 2019 23: 27
            That's right. Even ordinary orders have cliches, but nothing here, no details.
          2. -18
            11 June 2019 07: 00
            Holy simplicity ... It's about you!
            1. +11
              11 June 2019 08: 40
              Quote: kalibr
              Holy simplicity ... It's about you!

              Not at all .... "Holy simplicity", it is more about you, because any stuffing, you, no doubt, take at face value. It is good for people like you to sell "Novgorod birch bark letters" from freshly removed birch bark with Cyrillic letters scribbled with a nail, passing them off as ancient artifacts.
              I only expressed my doubts that the original document was presented to the public and indicated why. You have a great opportunity to present counterarguments and convince me otherwise, setting out your reinforced concrete justifications that these "faceless leaves" really are the historical document in question. hi
            2. +6
              11 June 2019 09: 10
              Quote: kalibr
              Holy simplicity ... It's about you!

              Quote: Nyrobsky
              By no means .... "Holy simplicity", it is more about you, because as the author of the article, preparing the material for publication, you, no doubt, believed that the people take it at face value. It is good for people like you to sell "Novgorod birch bark letters" from freshly removed birch bark with Cyrillic letters scribbled with a nail, passing them off as ancient artifacts.

              Here, in addition to the commentary, I found the coat of arms of the USSR that can be used as a stamp and make an imprint on paper, attached it to A4 paper of about 1994 with a yellowish background, scribbled with a pencil (since there is no old typewriter with a ribbon at hand) the words "secret protocol" - That's it, comrade "kalibr (Vyacheslav)", you can start to believe. hi

              1. +6
                11 June 2019 11: 55
                Below is a comment: “the stupid version from Ogonyok magazine” is a valid one, this is 5. Secret additional protocol, the same fake as the documents on Katyn about the alleged execution of 100500 Poles by nkvdists from German fail-safe weapon.

                - In the West they persistently write that in 1939 a secret agreement was signed with the agreement ...
                - Nothing.
                - Did not have?
                - Did not have. No, it's absurd.
                - Now, probably, we can talk about this.
                - Of course, there are no secrets. In my opinion, rumors are purposely spread out in order to somehow soak it up. No, no, in my opinion, it is still very clean and there could be nothing like this agreement. I stood very close to this, actually dealt with this matter, I can firmly say that this is, of course, a fiction.29.04.1983

                ... I’m asking Molotov for the first time:
                - What kind of secret protocol was signed during negotiations with Ribbentrop in 1939?
                - I do not remember.
                - Churchill writes that Hitler did not want to give you Southern Bukovina, that this greatly affected German interests, and she was not mentioned in the secret protocol.
                - Oh well.
                “And he called you to join the triple alliance.”
                - Yes. Scoundrel. It is simply, so to speak, in order to gloss over the matter. The game, the game, is quite so primitive.
                “And you said you did not know Stalin’s opinion on this matter.” Did you know, of course?
                - Of course. With Hitler it was impossible to keep the soul wide open.09.03.1986
                Felix Chuev
                One hundred and forty conversations with Molotov
              2. +2
                11 June 2019 14: 28
                Clearly fake. The coat of arms on the "Clarifications .." sheet is not in the center of the sheet; moreover, it should be convex, but here it should be depressed.
          3. +2
            15 June 2019 22: 35
            At least someone paid attention to this type of document. There are many oddities. Numbering paragraphs, Molotov's signature in Latin letters, lack of traces of firmware, etc. With a very high probability - this is a fake.
    2. +35
      10 June 2019 18: 34
      dumb version from the magazine Spark.
      it was done right.
    3. +49
      10 June 2019 18: 34
      The Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact allowed us to push the borders, returning the territory, to receive technology and industrial equipment on credit from Germany. After all, it did not work out with the English-French. The pre-revolutionary diplomats under the impotent Nikolas Slyunyav didn’t shine with their minds when they entered the Entente. Much more appropriate for RI was neutrality or union with Wilhelm. In general, any alliance with the British is more expensive. By the way, Ribbentrop was one of the most consistent opponents of the war with the USSR. Further: neither Britain nor France provided real assistance to Poland, with which they were bound by the treaty, in the expectation that Hitler would not stop in Poland and move further east. Yes, there was a fresh memory of the Munich agreement. So that the pact was necessary and timely for the USSR.
      1. -32
        10 June 2019 18: 44
        Much more appropriate for RI was neutrality or union with Wilhelm.
        Well, yes, so that the Germans with the Austro-Hungarians first rolled the Entente, and then all went to Russia. Now, if 30 million Russian people were killed already in World War I, you would say “class”. An ideal patriot of the country, there would be more of them.
        In general, any alliance with the British is more expensive.
        "Spite my mother frostbitten ears"
      2. +38
        10 June 2019 19: 35
        Everything is correct. Our liberals love to shed crocodile tears over the suffering of "unhappy Poland" as a result of the union of "two tyrants". But at the same time, they shamelessly keep silent about the fact that since the proclamation of its independence, there was no state in the world more hostile to the USSR than Poland. Poland occupied the land in 1920. which were supposed to go to Russia east of the Curzon line. and Russia was forced to agree in view of its own weakness. Therefore, there is no need and nothing to feel sorry for Poland. Despite the fact that V. Shpakovsky shamelessly lies, pointing out the weakness of the armies of Germany and Poland in 1939. I'm too lazy now to raise digital data, but that's enough. that six months later the "weak" Wehrmacht, according to the Shpaovskiy Wehrmacht, defeated the strongest French army in Europe in two weeks. At the same time, the allied British fled shamefully across the strait. As for Bessarabia, it was occupied by Romania in 1918. And the USSR never recognized the fact of annexation. So they got theirs back.
        1. +11
          10 June 2019 19: 57
          Still not too lazy and give data on the size of the Wehrmacht and the Polish army. By September 1, 1939 the number of the Wehrmacht was 4,6 million people. Of these, 2,7 million people in the ground forces, 1 million reservists, the rest Luftwaffe and Kriegsmarine. The number of the Polish army is 440 thousand people + 1 million reservists
          1. +5
            10 June 2019 20: 15
            Once again, do not be lazy and provide information on 1.09.1939 about the number of armies of Britain and France - the military allies of Poland.
            1. +16
              10 June 2019 20: 23
              I will not provide data on the composition, because it's not about that. The data I cited were aimed at refuting the author’s claim of Shpakovsky’s article about the allegedly weakness of the Wehrmacht and the Polish army in 1939, that is, in his opinion both of these armies did not pose a danger to the USSR. As for the armies you mentioned. then they did not take part in the Polish company of 1939 and remained in their original positions until they gave them the tough tooth in 1940.
              1. 0
                11 June 2019 19: 40
                Quote: mikh-korsakov
                remained in their original positions until they were given the teeth in 1940

                I add I also planned air strikes in the USSR (Baku oil fields) until 10.05.1940/XNUMX/XNUMX
        2. +2
          11 June 2019 15: 46
          I will add to your post that the Poles had previously torn Czechoslovakia with the Germans.
      3. +23
        10 June 2019 21: 16
        Quote: AS Ivanov.
        So that the pact was necessary and timely for the USSR.

        I subscribe to your every word !!!
        You have correctly noted that thanks to this, the "Pact M-R" of the USSR received the products of highly professional German workers (metal-working machines, engines, power plants, petrochemical equipment, etc.), paying with the products of non-professional workers of the USSR. Down, feathers, woods, hemp, UN-RICH manganese ore, etc.
        And not Stalin asked Hitler for a treaty, but Hitler. To which Stalin replied - The first step to conclude a contract would be a loan agreement. And Hitler was forced to agree.
        When I read about this, I applauded Stalin and Molotov in my heart.
        1. +20
          10 June 2019 21: 30
          One of the favorite tricks of shameless liars from the liberal camp is the assertion that Stalin, supplying Germany with raw materials, received nothing in return. Before the war, my father was sent to Holland to receive the warships that Germany built for the USSR in Dutch shipyards. He was interned there on June 22, 1944.
      4. +2
        11 June 2019 15: 17
        Quote: AS Ivanov.
        Much more appropriate for RI was neutrality or union with Wilhelm.

        The Entente's economic and political tentacles were longer. The bourgeois and liberal stratum, consider everything under them.
    4. -23
      10 June 2019 18: 43
      Right. At the same time, the Soviet-French mutual assistance treaty was then in force in 1940. Its execution depended on who Stalin called the aggressor. And he called the aggressors England and France, not Germany.
      [media = http: //doc.histrf.ru/20/sovetsko-frantsuzskiy-dogovor-o-vzaimnoy-pomoshchi/]
      1. +11
        10 June 2019 22: 40
        Quote: Nikolai Chudov
        Right. At the same time, the Soviet-French mutual assistance treaty was then in force in 1940. Its execution depended on who Stalin called the aggressor. And he called the aggressors England and France, not Germany.
        [media = http: //doc.histrf.ru/20/sovetsko-frantsuzskiy-dogovor-o-vzaimnoy-pomoshchi/]

        After the Munich Agreement, the Soviet-French agreement on mutual assistance was de facto denounced. Therefore, the USSR tried to conclude a new treaty with France and Great Britain in 1939, but the bourgeois did not want to bind themselves with this agreement, and just then Germany offered the USSR to conclude a non-aggression pact. Stalin was not an idiot, he read Hitler's "Mein Kampf" and knew perfectly well that this treaty would only delay the entry of the USSR into the war for a very short time, and used this time to prepare the USSR for the upcoming war. So don't la-la ...
        1. -12
          11 June 2019 05: 33
          No la-la about denunciation, there was not. "De facto denunciation" --- what the hell is this? Stalin's preparations were reduced to the surrender of the economic potential of France to Hitler and the conservation of the "Stalin line", which led to disastrous consequences. In fact, the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact became the German tool for breaking the "Stalin line" before the invasion. The Red Army was lured to an unprepared line of defense, and the "Stalin line" was disarmed by Soviet hands, personnel and weapons were moved to a new border, but the "Molotov line" was built only by 25%. It took 11 years to build the Stalin Line.
          1. +7
            11 June 2019 10: 35
            Such lines were anachronism in the upcoming war where the front was mobile and changed quickly, would this line just be broken in a bottleneck and cut off from communications, did the Maginot line last long?
            1. +1
              11 June 2019 16: 26
              The Karelian UR defended Leningrad until the blockade was lifted, the Kiev UR defended for two months, the Polotsk UR defended for three weeks. Our "anachronisms" blocked the Panzertrasse. With the initial deployment of the Red Army on Stalin's line, each SD would have had a whole army on average. 16 divisions of the 3rd tank group of Herman Goth attacked the Polotsk UR, they were opposed by 6 rifle divisions and bunkers.
      2. 0
        11 June 2019 19: 48
        Quote: Nikolay Chudov
        Soviet-French mutual assistance treaty

        An additional agreement, which was supposed to determine the practical aspects of cooperation, was not concluded at first because of P. Laval's reluctance (the ratification of the treaty occurred only after his resignation). Practical measures to repel aggression were discussed at the Moscow talks in 1939, which did not lead to an agreement. The contract then lost value.
        After the Finnish War, it is unreasonable to refer to the Soviet-French treaty
        1. 0
          12 June 2019 07: 09
          "Practical measures to repel aggression," -------- who is the aggressor, England and France, or Germany?

          As of June 22, 1941, there were no agreements on military alliance with the United States and England at all; they did not refer to the absence of agreements. And here is the agreement with France, yes, after the Finnish war, and who was supposed to execute it in 1940, and who is not wise to refer to it, France or the USSR, who wanted to execute it during the Wehrmacht invasion of France, who needed it? When the invasion begins, pre-war squabbles end, an example of this is the anti-Hitler coalition.
          1. -2
            18 June 2019 20: 23
            Quote: Nikolay Chudov
            who is the aggressor, England and France, or Germany?

            Germany
            Quote: Nikolay Chudov
            At the same time, the Soviet-French mutual assistance treaty was then in force in 1940.
            the 1940 treaty was not valid due to the position of Poland.
            Quote: naidas
            After the Finnish War, it is unreasonable to refer to the Soviet-French treaty
            Here, I’m sorry I didn’t indicate the contract of 1935 to which you refer after the Finnish came to naught.
            1. 0
              18 June 2019 21: 17
              naidas (naidas)
              the 1940 contract was not valid due to the position of Poland

              Sorry, but in 1940 the Polish state did not exist and had no position, and did not prevent the USSR from acting.
              [quote] [/ quote] After the Finnish war, it is unreasonable to refer to the Soviet-French treaty
              Who is unreasonable to refer to him, France or the USSR? The USSR generally does not need to refer to this treaty in order to come to the aid of France in 1940.
              1. -1
                18 June 2019 22: 36
                Quote: Nikolay Chudov
                Sorry, but in 1940 the Polish state did not exist.

                Yes, of course (until 1.09.1939 because of Poland’s position (refusal to provide a corridor), it printed 1940, since until May 1940 there were hostile military preparations of France and England towards the USSR because of the Finns.
    5. +24
      10 June 2019 18: 45
      And how many predators gathered before this? In Munich, let’s say. The Soviet Union did exactly the same as ALL world powers did before.
    6. +12
      10 June 2019 19: 25
      With predators it’s clear. And who do you consider herbivores: Poland, England, USA?
      1. +9
        10 June 2019 19: 39
        In this case, predators dismembered one herbivore, Czechoslovakia ...
        1. +11
          10 June 2019 19: 57
          predators dismembered one herbivore-Czechoslovakia
          Indeed! When Poland bit off a piece of Czechoslovakia, they do not like to remember this, but Topwar is to help us.
          https://topwar.ru/6015-dva-hischnika-polsha-i-germaniya-protiv-chehoslovakii.html
        2. +5
          10 June 2019 20: 21
          Quote: 210ox
          In this case, predators dismembered one herbivore, Czechoslovakia ...

          These so-called "herbivores", during their formation as a state, bit off more from their neighbors than they could digest.
    7. +24
      10 June 2019 20: 00
      I was always touched by maxim like yours .... Why then no one accuses the Poles of a vile conspiracy ??? against which the Fuhrer and the Reich were just fed ... Whose banks financed the German military-industrial complex, who owned German defense concerns before the war ??? But the Union is to blame for everything, huh ...
    8. +6
      10 June 2019 20: 03
      Adjutant, what a babble in the sandbox!
      1. +1
        11 June 2019 19: 56
        Well, usually the story heading is given to people like Adjutant.
    9. +12
      10 June 2019 20: 53
      Quote: Adjutant
      The Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact is an agreement of 2 predators,

      And I would advise the gentlemen of the adjutants not to rush to conclusions.
      1. To everyone who rushed to discuss the article, I will ask a simple question - have you ever come across a state document entitled "Secret tra-ta-ta and abvgd"? So I did not have to. And the stamp on the document in the upper right corner - "Secret", "Top secret", "Of special importance" - had to be. Hence the conclusion - a document called "Secret Additional Protocol", in today's language - fake!
      2. “The government abolishes secret diplomacy, for its part expressing its firm intention to conduct all negotiations completely openly before all the people, proceeding immediately to the full publication of secret agreements confirmed or concluded by the government of landowners and capitalists from February to November 7 (October 25), 1917. The entire content of these secret treaties, since it is directed, as in most cases, to the delivery of benefits and privileges to the Russian landlords and capitalists, to the retention or increase of the annexations of the Great Russians, the government declares unconditionally and immediately canceled. "
      Decree of the Soviet government of November 8 (October 26) 1917 =
      Lies from the first to the last line. In today's language - fake!
      1. +6
        10 June 2019 21: 31
        Krasnoyarsk Today, 20: 53
        Have you ever come across a government document entitled "Secret Tra-ta-ta and abvgd"? So I did not have to. And the stamp on the document in the upper right corner - "Secret", "Top secret", "Of special importance"


        That's right, also drew attention to this.
        And look at the signature of Molotov.
        Under the "protocol" itself, the letter "t", in the signature - lowercase.
        And under the "clarification", "t" is capital!
      2. +3
        10 June 2019 23: 31
        I’ll support it, even on a scattered report, there are cliches, but nothing here - I doubt it.
        1. +3
          10 June 2019 23: 41
          Quote: karabas86
          I’ll support it, even on a scattered report, there are cliches, but nothing here - I doubt it.

          And I have no doubt. I'm sure - fake! And the first and second.
      3. +10
        10 June 2019 23: 54
        The first sensible comment. In 1939 the USSR also signed treaties with Estonia and Latvia. These treaties were accompanied by "confidential protocols". Precisely "confidential", not "secret". This was then adopted by diplomatic terminology. Foolishness and ignorance are the first. The now published allegedly originals are exactly the same copy of the British microfilms that the deputies from Lithuania made public at the congress of the people's deputies. Then, in the Soviet archive, this fake was not found, and to a request in the Federal Republic of Germany, a mocking answer was received that the archive had been bombed and the documents of that period burned down (from what, I wonder, did the British make copies ?!) , Yeltsin (when he started to fish the CPSU as a criminal organization). In these "protocols", two mistakes simply hurt the eye - the word "both" instead of "both" in relation to the word "side" (at that time very professional people worked in the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and knew Russian well) and the attribution of Finland to the Baltic states. Foolishness and ignorance are the second. Molotov knew very well what the Baltic states are. There was one more nonsense on the British microfilm that the "archivists" have now corrected - the signature "Molotov" was written in Latin script. There is one more nonsense (either there were not enough sheets, or carelessness, or the manufacturer of the forgery made it with a fig in his pocket) - two sheets with an embossed coat of arms, but one was not! This is an intergovernmental document, not a receipt for a three-ruble payday loan! There is no shadow of a doubt that this is a low-quality fake. there is no need to invite criminologists (and it would be interesting to compare the fonts and the composition of mastic and paper). And it was published just on the eve of the next June 22nd - how can you not shit once again!
        1. +3
          11 June 2019 07: 34
          Quote: at84432384
          The fact that this is a base fake, there is no shadow of doubt. there’s no need to invite forensic scientists (and it would be interesting to compare fonts and the composition of mastic and paper)

          Thanks, namesake. I notice that recently VO has been "indulging" us with either fakes or low-quality articles on a historical theme. "I am tormented by vague doubts," and the administration of the site is Russian? Or - "sent Cossack"?
      4. -1
        11 June 2019 19: 58
        But I’m interested in something else that’s secret.
        1. The USSR did not openly recognize the seizure of Bessarabia.
        2. The Curzon line is set by the winners in WWI.
        3. The influence zones of the Baltic states - historically there is influence either Germany or Russia.
        1. 0
          11 June 2019 21: 07
          Quote: naidas
          1. The USSR did not openly recognize the seizure of Bessarabia.

          What does it mean? A closed, then recognized? Or denied the capture of Bessarabia?
          Quote: naidas
          2. The Curzon line is set by the winners in WWI.

          Well yes. So what?
          Quote: naidas
          3. The influence zones of the Baltic states - historically there is influence either Germany or Russia.

          And what follows from this?
          You have the most mysterious comment. Congratulations.
          1. -2
            11 June 2019 22: 33
            Quote: Krasnoyarsk
            You have the most mysterious comment. Congratulations.

            Well, so what's the secret?
            1. You do not know that the USSR everywhere spoke openly that Bessarabia was occupied by Romania, then yes, this is a secret for you.
            2. You yourself acknowledge.
            Quote: Krasnoyarsk
            Well yes. So what?
            Where is the secret?
            3.
            Quote: Krasnoyarsk
            And what follows from this?
            and again what's in this secret, why dark answer.
            1. -1
              11 June 2019 22: 49
              Quote: naidas

              Well, so what's the secret?
              1. You do not know that the USSR everywhere spoke openly that Bessarabia was occupied by Romania, then yes, this is a secret for you.

              Well, right, Bessarabia was occupied by Romania in 1918. So what? The USSR threw the Romanians out of Bessarabia and created the MSSR. And what's the catch? What is wrong?
              Quote: naidas
              Where is the secret?

              What is the secret?
              Quote: naidas
              and again what's in this secret, why dark answer.

              I think I get it. You have problems with the Russian language. You have equated the words "mysterious" and "secret".
              You wrote the banality - =. The influence zones of the Baltic states - historically there is influence either Germany or Russia. = - and I tried to find out what excited you? Or what did you mean by that? For me this is a mystery, but not a secret.
              1. -2
                11 June 2019 22: 56
                Quote: Krasnoyarsk
                You have problems with the Russian language.

                Ask what is secret in the secret agreement, you answer
                Quote: Krasnoyarsk
                Well yes. So what?

                Quote: Krasnoyarsk
                And what follows from this?

                Quote: Krasnoyarsk
                You have the most mysterious comment. Congratulations.

                Quote: Krasnoyarsk
                That's right,

                Quote: Krasnoyarsk
                What is the secret?

                Quote: Krasnoyarsk
                I seem to understand.

                Quote: Krasnoyarsk
                You wrote a banality

                And these are the answers to the content in the secret agreement?
                1. +1
                  12 June 2019 07: 28
                  Quote: naidas

                  And these are the answers to the content in the secret agreement?

                  Yeah, I think I get it. In the light of - = 3.Zones of influence of the Baltic States, there is historically influence either Germany or Russia. = You ask - what is secret about this "Additional secret agreement"
                  And, if my guess is correct, then I absolutely agree with you - it’s stupid to secret what everyone knows.
                  You just need to express your thoughts more clearly. hi
    10. 0
      11 June 2019 01: 53
      Yeah, so picking up Russian lands is bad, since the Bolsheviks did it? So, Mr. Adjutant?
      These are the "patriots", nonechnye Adjutants. By the way, the adjutant is written with a solid sign. But you can do it with a soft one.
    11. +8
      11 June 2019 12: 02
      Quote: Adjutant
      The Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact is an agreement of two predators, Nazi and Soviet imperialism, aimed at redivision of the world.

      Tell me, WHAT did the USSR have to do in the event of a German war against Poland: to calmly watch Germany find itself under ... Minsk (on the old border of the USSR), meekly giving her Zap Ukrainian and white? belay
      Top of stupidity! And the West absolutely agreed with this, NOT declaring war on the USSR (unlike Germany).

      Therefore, the interests of the parties were negotiated, but only in the "case of reorganization" of the division.
      The USSR did NOT plan ANY joint WAR, did NOT coordinate, and was not obligated to support it!
      There would be no German attack - there would be no border changes. And so, I had to save at least something ......

      Quote: Adjutant
      Well, then the friends quarreled, and the Soviet and German peoples had to pay millions of lives for the mistakes of the "friends".

      All nations paid:
      for the Munich betrayal of 1938,
      -for the policy of appeasing the aggressor by the West,
      -for ignorance and misunderstanding by the Soviet leadership of the course and results of the WWII, which convincingly showed that only a joint struggle with Germany on the Western and Eastern Front will lead to Victory.

      the RM pact did not lead to WWII, as did a dozen similar Covenants with Germany from England, France, etc. The USSR did NOT have an obligation to protect Poland, and it was categorically against it.

      But he had to act only until May 1940, before the attack on France, with the formation of the Eastern and Western fronts.
      1. +2
        11 June 2019 13: 21
        Hooray !!! Olgovich is back !!! Why did you leave us, Andrey? It was boring here without you
        1. 0
          11 June 2019 20: 01
          But Olgovich is somehow suspiciously adequate. Maybe temporarily?
          1. 0
            11 June 2019 21: 28
            Quote: naidas
            But Olgovich is somehow suspiciously adequate. Maybe temporarily?
            Reply


            He embarked on the path of correction, took into account previous mistakes, made relevant conclusions and joined the Communist Party !!! lol
    12. 0
      13 June 2019 14: 33
      Quote: Adjutant
      that is why it is necessary to fight the Germans with 2 fronts, and far from being fools, pre-revolutionary diplomats created the Entente.

      And in the 1930s, apparently the only not a fool was the USSR, repeatedly proposed to create an anti-German coalition. And always failing ...
    13. 0
      14 June 2019 04: 54
      Quote: Adjutant
      And alone - huge sacrifices and terrible damage

      But note: neither Lithuania, nor Ukraine, nor Poland are returning to the 1939 borders. So the peoples of these countries at their state level consider the results of the redistribution of borders in 1939 and 1945 fair.
  3. +16
    10 June 2019 18: 21
    Meanwhile, the USSR began not only trade supplies from Germany, but also tried to show it its “good attitude” in the cultural field. The movie “Alexander Nevsky” was released on screens and was removed from the rental, articles about the horrors of the Gestapo were no longer published in newspapers, and “cannibal”, “bloody maniac” and “underdog of Hitler”, as if by magic, became the “führer of the German nation” and “ Chancellor of the German people. " The cartoons on him, of course, immediately disappeared, and Pravda began to accuse France and England of fomenting war and print articles about the starving British workers. A similar turn on 180 degrees, of course, did not go unnoticed by a certain part of Soviet citizens, but the vigilance of the “bodies” was quickly “all those who chatted” sent “where necessary”. But on the other hand, the Soviet people clearly breathed more freely, and this is an indisputable fact.


    I turn on the TV ... Everything new is well forgotten old?

    And the title is too loud. This publication of the treaty by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs did not bring anything new. Just now showed the originals, and before that there were scans from them. This whole story has long been known to all. In the West, this was known from the end of the war.
    1. 0
      11 June 2019 15: 36
      Quote: Choi
      The West has known this since the end of the war.

      They knew from the beginning of the war. Otherwise, they would have reacted to the entry of Soviet troops into Poland by declaring war.
      1. -1
        11 June 2019 20: 02
        Quote: brn521
        They knew from the beginning of the war

        They knew from the end of the PMV line of Curzon.
  4. +5
    10 June 2019 18: 27
    I think that only the lazy did not know about the presence of an additional secret agreement and its contents.
    1. +12
      10 June 2019 19: 32
      One might think that now the countries publish all the agreements in full ... If the agreement is bilateral, then others do not need to know all the details. In this case, I don't see any crime from anyone's side. The crime began with the German attack on Poland. The USSR simply returned to the Curzon Line. It's funny about "untiing your hands". You might think Hitler was afraid that the USSR would start fighting on the side of Poland. On her side, no one was going to fight. Everyone knew this, except the Poles. It seems that history is repeating itself now ...
      1. -8
        10 June 2019 22: 50
        The article refers to the fact that the principles proclaimed by Lenin’s decree were immediately sent to landfill. About total lies.
        1. -4
          11 June 2019 20: 03
          Quote: Mestny
          About total lies.

          What is the lie:
          about Bessarabia, the Curzon line, influence in the Baltic states?
          If yes, more. If not, then what?
          1. -2
            11 June 2019 21: 03
            Everything is written in the article, has it really not reached you? But for some reason Sergey understood ...
            1. -1
              11 June 2019 22: 36
              Quote: kalibr
              For some reason, Sergey understood ...

              What a fellow Sergey, I realized that not recognizing the USSR of Bessaribia as the territory of Romania is a secret from a secret protocol. Young Sergei only learned such a secret after the article.
        2. 0
          12 June 2019 23: 04
          You also add "vile" and "shameful". And exclude the USSR from the list of "honest" countries. Who have never "totally" lied about anything. Well, yes, they lied exclusively "democratically and liberally."
        3. 0
          14 June 2019 05: 05
          Quote: Mestny
          principles proclaimed by Lenin's decree were immediately sent to landfill.

          When the Bolsheviks came to power, they understood diplomacy a little better than HSE teachers in industrial production now. But after 30 years, Soviet diplomacy has already corrected its early mistakes and achieved good results. HSE professors can boast of big earnings, but there are no shifts in the economy for industrialists.
  5. +11
    10 June 2019 18: 33
    It's about time. Now we can correctly interpret this document. It was done right.
  6. -18
    10 June 2019 18: 35
    , which was in clear contradiction with the theory and practice of Marxist-Leninist doctrine, that is, with the ideology proclaimed from both the high stands and the pages of the newspaper Pravda.
    what difference does it make that big ranks hang on the ears from high tribunes, where real matters are more important. And these matters, from the very first days of Soviet history, went against the preached ideology. Where this “own path” led was clear back in the 20s, read the same Zamyatin.
    1. +7
      10 June 2019 20: 17
      And where did he lead, I apologize? To Gagarin, universal health care and education, powerful science, etc.?
      Hmm, right, the way is not there. crying
      1. -19
        10 June 2019 22: 07
        To general poverty, limitation of rights and opportunities, oppression of human consciousness, caste stratification of society.
        Communism needed submissive, able-bodied and healthy slaves, not people.
        There were of course pluses, in the form of health care, education, science ... but all the same can be said about Nazi Germany, will you also be nostalgic for it, or does the end not justify the means?
        1. +2
          10 June 2019 23: 58
          Well, the current government does not even need healthy slaves. She needs people to just die.
        2. +6
          11 June 2019 00: 30
          Quote: Corn
          To general poverty, limitation of rights and opportunities, oppression of human consciousness, caste stratification of society.
          Communism needed submissive, able-bodied and healthy slaves,
          not people ...


          It was the poverty of thieves and parasites who were not allowed to get rich
          Lovers of sodomy were limited in rights
          Sexually preoccupied preached on meetings
          Consciousness of rogues like Ostap Bender oppressed
          A tax was introduced for childlessness, abortion was prohibited
          Academics and scientists had at their disposal housekeepers
          And also "communism needed humble, able-bodied and healthy slaves, not people"and therefore children were taught to wash their hands and ears, brush their teeth, do exercises, sing songs and admire Timur and his team.

        3. +4
          11 June 2019 02: 21
          Sorry, are you raving in reality, or what? What a caste society? !! What slaves ?! Whose?!! belay
          Excuse me, is your training manual so stupid?
          You didn’t seem to even live in the USSR, otherwise it would be a shame to carry such nonsense here.
        4. +5
          11 June 2019 03: 02
          Quote: Corn
          Communism needed submissive, able-bodied and healthy slaves, not people.

          Corn, who are you?
          1. +2
            11 June 2019 21: 13
            Quote: Mordvin 3
            Corn, who are you?

            Weird question. Corn, it is corn, what is incomprehensible?
        5. Fat
          +2
          11 June 2019 09: 59
          Quote: Corn
          To general poverty, limitation of rights and opportunities, oppression of human consciousness, caste stratification of society.
          Communism needed submissive, able-bodied and healthy slaves, not people.

          That's terrible. The rest of the world always needed well-programmed, stratified into strata, prepared by the system free consumers of goods and services. The individual’s health and ability to work, and even whether he is a person, does not matter ... The individual must consume!
          And here communism: poverty (there is nothing to consume), restriction of rights (LGBT people are criminals), oppressed consciousness (a new TV is not needed because the old one has not broken). And the worst thing is that slaves are people.
        6. +4
          11 June 2019 11: 57
          Quote: Corn
          To general poverty, limitation of rights and opportunities, oppression of human consciousness, caste stratification of society.

          This is exactly what we came to in 28 years without a socialist state.
        7. 0
          12 June 2019 23: 07
          To all of the above, the United States led the way in relation to the enslaved peoples. And in the Union lived cheerful, cheerful and healthy free people in every respect.
          Real, and not verbal, freedom in the Union was heaped up. Much more than in any "civilized" country.
        8. 0
          14 June 2019 05: 18
          Quote: Corn
          To general poverty, limitation of rights and opportunities, oppression of human consciousness, caste stratification of society.

          The easiest and most accurate way of biological welfare. In captivity, even the beast does not breed. The highest population growth was during the NEP. In Russia at the beginning of the 20th century, the average life expectancy of Russians was about 20 years. The Russian population under the tsar almost stopped growing by 1914. The caste stratification and poverty of the common man after 1991 still shudders many. Even Maria Zakharova recalls how she went hungry as a student at MGIMO. Or the most published Russian writer in the PRC, Prilepin recalled how his family ate one sauerkraut .. And in the 1980s, Stankin students and teachers were outraged by such a caste privilege of the Soviet nomenclature: they served tea with lemon in the buffet, and their subordinates without lemon. Corn and I probably live in different countries. Or we have very different rights and opportunities.
    2. +9
      10 June 2019 20: 35
      what difference does it make that big ranks hang on the ears from high tribunes, where real matters are more important.
      You are careful with your sentiments, or some will think that you are talking about today's power.
      1. -14
        10 June 2019 22: 52
        This is exactly about the power in the USSR.
        Only there for such a statement they could not just "think the wrong way." For a shadow of doubt. The communists are known for their fanatical hatred of those who simply did not have time to vehemently agree with them.
        1. +2
          10 June 2019 23: 59
          Did you see it yourself, or who told?
          1. -7
            11 June 2019 01: 03
            Well, of course, myself.
            Not just seen, but also lived and worked.
            Nothing like the stories of forum communist propagandists.
            They lie to you.
        2. +4
          11 June 2019 00: 39
          Quote: Mestny
          This is exactly about the power in the USSR.
          Only there for such a statement could not just
          "not to think so." For a shadow of doubt. Communists are famous
          his fanatical hatred of those who simply did not have time
          vehemently agrees with them.


          The communists of the 70-80s are known for their enrichment.
          There was such a film in the USSR "The Blonde Around the Corner" - if not for
          in it starring Andrei Mironov, then this film would be sent
          to a wash for showing communists in an unsightly light.
          In the 90s, these communists settled well
        3. +1
          14 June 2019 00: 42
          Quote: Mestny
          The Communists are known for their fanatical hatred of those who simply did not have time to violently agree with them.

          Give power to the modern liberal party, and you will see not only hatred towards those who think differently ...
  7. +1
    10 June 2019 18: 46
    Open secret
    1. +6
      10 June 2019 20: 39
      Isaev is a respected historian, but he is not an expert in pre-war diplomacy, and therefore also succumbed to the general excitement of recognizing first the "copy" and now the "original" of the Treaty.
    2. +5
      11 June 2019 00: 09
      Well, why would the Germans need to ask for a copy of the document from the Russian archive, if they have their own script ?! Isaev has intellect problems.
  8. +13
    10 June 2019 18: 51
    And for a long time a piece of paper, which Churchill gave "for approval" to Stalin, was advertised, on which the volumes of the territories of Britain and the USSR seceding after the war were indicated in%.
    And then the secret protocol was published and you are beginning to boil ..... people write right: how about the Munich agreement ?!
  9. +29
    10 June 2019 18: 53
    The text of the secret protocol should have been published a long time ago - as an ostrashka for all Russophobes.

    The Soviet-German treaty (not a pact) on non-aggression from 1939 - an excellent course of domestic diplomacy that dealt a political blow to two opponents of the USSR in the west — the British Empire and the east — the Japanese Empire.

    Before concluding a treaty, the Soviet leadership in 1939 had one big nightmare - a war on two fronts against Germany and Japan, with the support of the latter from the United States, Britain, France, Italy, Turkey, Iran, then on the list. Such a war against the entire western and eastern world of the USSR would definitely have lost.

    By signing the non-aggression treaty with Germany, the Soviet Union turned the arrows on the initiators of the war in Europe - Britain and France, which allowed Germany not only to restore the military industry and the army, but also to seize the demilitarized Ruhr region without a fight, to occupy Austria and the Czech Republic.

    As the real story has shown, Britain and France surrendered Germany to turnkey and Poland itself, refusing to fulfill allied obligations and to begin hostilities in western Germany.

    Poland, Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia, Finland, Hungary and Romania were dictatorial states in 1939, while all of them had territorial claims to the USSR — hence, these limitrofs needed sobering up, which was realized in 1939-1940.

    September 17 of the USSR 1939 of the year led its troops to the territory of the former Polish state after fleeing the Polish government — essentially to no-man’s territory.

    T.N. The negotiations between the British and French in Moscow in August 1939 to conclude an agreement on a military alliance were a farce: Western negotiators did not have powers of attorney from their governments to sign documents and all their positive / negative opinions were from the category "we will report to the authorities."

    PS I understand that the author of the article likes to become a German soap rather than a Russian citizen.
    1. +15
      10 June 2019 19: 10
      Quote: Operator
      PS I understand that the author of the article likes to become a German soap rather than a Russian citizen.

      Well, it's Shpakovsky!. Kicking a dead lion is cool ...
      1. -11
        10 June 2019 19: 45
        Where do you read this, I do not understand? It is necessary to carefully read the text. CAREFULLY!
        1. -18
          10 June 2019 23: 20
          Excellent article. good Nothing extra.
          And do not get involved in meaningless discussions.
          1. +10
            11 June 2019 03: 09
            Quote: voyaka uh
            And do not get involved in meaningless discussions.

            And rightly so. I see that Shpakovsky about the USSR scribbled, so spit the hunt. It would be better if he wrote about lytsarees, a propagandist of the Central Committee of the CPSU. sad
            1. -1
              11 June 2019 16: 22
              By the way, Vladimir, remember I wrote to you about a number of interesting magazines? Of course, you have already taken one of them in the library and are reading, aren't you?
            2. +3
              11 June 2019 21: 19
              Quote: Mordvin 3
              It would be better if he wrote about the knights,

              So he writes the same nonsense about the "knights".
              1. -2
                12 June 2019 06: 42
                Are you a specialist, yes? It is interesting to get acquainted with your publications on this topic? Or are they not?
                1. +2
                  12 June 2019 07: 34
                  Quote: kalibr
                  Are you a specialist, yes? It is interesting to get acquainted with your publications on this topic? Or are they not?

                  You are right, they are not. But this does not mean that if I do not have publications on the topic of fakes, then I will not be able to distinguish the fake from the original. Like your fantasy on the theme of "knighthood"
                2. +1
                  14 June 2019 00: 37
                  Quote: kalibr
                  Are you a specialist, yes? It is interesting to get acquainted with your publications on this topic? Or are they not?

                  Specialists like you, you need to drive away a filthy broom from studying history ...
          2. +4
            11 June 2019 12: 32
            Quote: voyaka uh
            Great article. Nothing extra.

            explain why Hitler wouldn’t attack Poland if it weren’t for the RM pact (according to the author)?

            The USSR would rush to defend .... Poland? belay Yes, and against her wishes ?! recourse
            you and the author have no arguments ... request
          3. -4
            11 June 2019 16: 21
            Alexey! You can not even imagine how it all entertains me ...
      2. +5
        11 June 2019 12: 04
        Quote: polar fox
        Well, it's Shpakovsky!. Kicking a dead lion is cool ...

        He is a repainted party apparatchik, and is accustomed to the policy of leadership from a young age.
    2. +5
      11 June 2019 08: 46
      Shpakovsky famous renegade
      1. +4
        11 June 2019 11: 32
        Quote: Mikhail Zhukov
        Shpakovsky famous renegade

        It looks like a direct descendant of Kautsky.
        1. +2
          11 June 2019 11: 33
          I do not know the history of his family to such an extent)))
        2. -3
          11 June 2019 11: 42
          Wow! It is impossible to give a person a greater compliment! laughing
          Kautsky is an outstanding personality. The father of European Social Democracy, the so-called social states with state assistance and municipal assistance to the weak and with a progressive tax on the rich. According to his ideas, modern Denmark, Sweden, and Finland were built.
          1. +4
            11 June 2019 11: 58
            Quote: voyaka uh
            Wow! It is impossible to give a person a greater compliment!
            Kautsky is an outstanding personality.

            You obviously did not study the legacy of Lenin, otherwise you would know what all students in the USSR knew:
            And at such a moment, the leader of the Second International, Herr Kautsky, publishes a book on the dictatorship of the proletariat, that is, on the proletarian revolution, the book is a hundred times more shameful, more outrageous, more renegade than the famous "Prerequisites of Socialism" by Bernstein. Almost 20 years have passed since the publication of this renegade book, and now is a repetition, exacerbation of Kautsky's renegade!
    3. +4
      11 June 2019 12: 08
      Quote: Operator
      Operator (Andrey)
      The Soviet-German treaty (not a pact) on non-aggression from 1939 - an excellent course of domestic diplomacy that dealt a political blow to two opponents of the USSR in the west — the British Empire and the east — the Japanese Empire.

      5+! I will subscribe to every word of your comment. It was a major victory of the USSR, achieved through diplomatic means.
  10. +23
    10 June 2019 19: 18
    On July 1, Britain and France agreed to give guarantees to the Baltic states.
    [/ I]

    And they seem to have already given guarantees to one country (which the truth has ceased to exist.
    Stalin understood that help from "democracies" was like a goat of milk.


    [b] The “Liberation Campaign” on September 17, 1939, which completely eliminated (and for the umpteenth time!) Polish statehood, was extremely ambiguous.
    [/B]


    They took their own, and rightfully so. And the Germans completely eliminated statehood.

    [i] But at the other end of Eurasia, the signing of the Pact ... led to the fall of the cabinet of the Japanese government! After all, just at that time there were fighting on the Khalkhin-Gol River, and the Japanese hoped for Germany as their ally and partner along the axis of Rome - Berlin - Tokyo.


    Great, one contract and so many acquisitions. Everything was done in the interests of the country. Great move. And he threw the war to no less hated enemies.
    If you don’t know how Western politicians contributed to Hitler’s coming to power, then the illusion will appear that this treaty launched WWII. So she was already walking. Entire states in Europe have already eaten.
    And the desire to protect your country from the suffering of war is only welcome (and at the same time receive material benefits.

    And you, Shpakovsky, to moralize on any topic, make people laugh. With your principle, which is beneficial. it’s moral и the desire to be on the side of the strong, loving alignment..

    This is what Stalin could not foresee, so that Western democracies would give up so quickly.
    1. +6
      10 June 2019 19: 39
      mugging, let the paddling pool.
      but let's imagine that the "Western campaign" dragged on ... for fans of alternative history of course ...
      1. +10
        10 June 2019 20: 28
        That's for sure. That way for a year or two or three (well, Poland, Britain, and France are not the weakest in Europe, there you look and Luxembourg and Holland tightened, and Belgium and Denmark shook). And then it would turn out. that we could have fought without heavy losses (at the right time, we would have climbed).

        And naturally they made a decisive contribution to the victory. And it is clear.

        But liquid democracies turned out to be ..
  11. +18
    10 June 2019 19: 29
    I also think that everything was done right then.

    and the non-aggression pact itself. and secret protocol.
    the treaty broke the German-Japanese Union. just at the moment when the USSR was already in fact fighting with Japan, and the West was openly pulling time, sending a delegation without authority to negotiations ... and I wonder how the conflict with Japan would develop if there were no agreement with Germany ??
    the contract gave at least a respite from the war, and a chance not to get involved in the war at all, well, or on its own terms.
    the agreement opened up opportunities for economic cooperation with Germany, oil and wheat were driven there for a reason, but in exchange for a lot of very useful things ..

    what's bad about all this?

    a secret protocol ensured the return of the lost territories. and to everyone who sheds crocodile tears about "sovereign states". these hyenas and jackals were not sovereign then as they are now ... but they were hostile both then and now .. pawns in someone else's game.
    what is ceremony with them?
  12. +12
    10 June 2019 19: 30
    What u us chopped off at the time of weakness (and not we themselves released), then we intended to return. And the political situation greatly contributed to this.
  13. +18
    10 June 2019 19: 36
    As far as I understand, Hitler asked the USSR for neutrality if he declared war on Poland and other cap. to states. We were ready to protect the Serbs, even the Czechs, but the Poles,
    who were rotting in the concentration camps of our captured Red Army men in 20 (and their fighting comrades were still alive) we were not going to defend. Only 40 years old was the one who remembered well where the border of his country was located a little more than 20 years ago. Therefore, it is natural that the main condition for our non-interference was the requirement not to cross the borders of the Russian Empire ... I consider this decision to be absolutely correct.
    I am 50, I swore an oath to the Soviet Union to protect its territorial integrity and interests of the Soviet people. You can trend me as much as you like, that Ukraine is an independent country, for me and those who have served it is part of MY - OUR country. Yes, Bender’s lackeys are in power there. The people must be protected from them. And our volunteers in the Donbas defended precisely these ideas and their oath.
    1. +14
      10 June 2019 20: 04
      You can trend me as much as you like, that Ukraine is an independent country, for me and those who have served it is part of MY - OUR country
      I'm glad I'm not alone
      1. +8
        10 June 2019 21: 35
        Far from alone! hi bully
  14. +11
    10 June 2019 19: 39
    Author:
    Vyacheslav Shpakovsky writes
    That is, the two countries behind the backs of the third countries agreed, bashfully avoiding the details, about the annexation of the territories of several independent countries at once, and it could have been achieved only through war. The document did not specify who would start this war and who would end it.

    I think that the author made this conclusion, failing to recognize the next fake, which was thrown in order to discredit our state, which was clearly not the culprit of the Second World War.
    The analysis of this fake took place a few days ago on the forum "For Pravda", and anyone can get acquainted with the arguments of the participants in the discussion:

    By the way, the document is printed by "both sides", Everywhere there are "Contracting Parties" with capital letters and feminine gender, and here - on you! - just "side" with a lowercase letter and even masculine. So it's a crazy fake. I believe that examination would have found another 15 pieces of fake signs.

    ...
    Koba why some kind of examination? And so everything is clear. It is enough to type in the search engine the words "non-aggression pact of the USSR and Japan" and the following scan will be released:

    ...
    And if you go further and type in the "non-aggression pact of the USSR and Yugoslavia" you will find this:

    http://zapravdu.ru/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2743&start=5850
    1. +3
      10 June 2019 19: 59
      I will tell you so, the fact that in our archives any shushera digs uniquely. And as Ostap- said about printing in the west (you just need to get stamp sheets) - they blind any document.

      But, why so justify.
      Yes, they signed. And the enemies at that time Britain, France, Poland (especially) were even big.
      And all this agreement was subordinated to the interests of his country.

      And you Democrats try the dish that you yourself have prepared.

      And no excuses. Only statements.
      1. +8
        10 June 2019 21: 02
        Quote: chenia
        But, why so justify.

        Well, at least so that our descendants would know the truth from our denials of lies, and not from the statements of a certain Shpakovsky.
        1. +4
          10 June 2019 21: 18
          Right. But not excuses are needed.but statements that, at that time it was the best solution to many problems for our country.

          And explain how many "well-wishers" we were surrounded by.
          And be a repetition. Would do just as well.
          AND ALL !!

          But for the war with the Germans (which was supposed) it was necessary to prepare differently. There were errors.
        2. +7
          10 June 2019 22: 03
          He had a difficult Soviet childhood, he repeatedly wrote about this at VO. And he also wrote off from the army. And to publish - so on.
          1. +5
            11 June 2019 11: 24
            Quote: Aviator_
            He had a difficult Soviet childhood, he repeatedly wrote about this at VO.

            Then everything is clear with this "source" of information - in the trash can this article.
            1. +2
              11 June 2019 15: 51
              Sometimes he writes about the castles of Cyprus and other historical places, those works, although they are not without significant shortcomings (he did not give a complete overview of the eras), are still interesting in a first approximation. And everything else is like from the 1989 Ogonyok magazine.
              1. +1
                11 June 2019 18: 55
                Quote: Aviator_
                And everything else is like from the 1989 Ogonyok magazine.

                I remember this rogue Korotich - he inflicted a lot of harm on our country with his gang of watering cans from Ogonyok.
                1. +1
                  11 June 2019 21: 10
                  Still alive, rogue. He worked at Boston University after 1991 (during the Emergency Committee he was in the United States, he was afraid to return), then the Americans threw him out ("Rome does not pay traitors"), now he is in Kiev, then in Moscow. The old stump is already born in 1936.
  15. -8
    10 June 2019 19: 40
    Quote: Operator
    I understand that the author of the article likes to become a German soap rather than a Russian citizen.

    Why are you so carelessly reading the text?
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. +1
      10 June 2019 20: 02
      Caliber
      Why are you so carelessly reading the text?

      And there is some incomprehensible Molotov Ribbentrop Pact ... belay
      What kind of document is this? Something like the Hitler-Chamberlain Pact? drinks
    3. -1
      10 June 2019 21: 07
      And why should he read your text when he had his own prepared and replicated in a heap of copies for an answer on any topic a long time ago. Up to the most burning: "Is there life on Mars, or well, fuck it!" bully
    4. +6
      10 June 2019 23: 32
      To condemn Stalin for preparing for war with Hitler is to joyfully agree with his unenviable fate in the event of the latter's victory.

      I play with you, Vyacheslav - you actually have to run ahead of the locomotive and demand to punish all Poles for being active in the genocide of Jews in Poland, and you are sad that the Red Army has saved the life of the overwhelming number of Jews in Western Ukraine and Western Belarus
  16. -11
    10 June 2019 19: 42
    Quote: chenia
    And you, Shpakovsky, to moralize on any topic, make people laugh. With your principle - what is profitable. it is moral and the desire to be on the side of the strong, love the scenario ..

    Did Stalin do otherwise? What has put in the forefront the PROFIT or LENIN PRINCIPLES of refusal of SECRET DIPLOMACY?
    1. -5
      10 June 2019 20: 06
      Quote: kalibr
      LENIN PRINCIPLES OF REFUSAL FROM SECRET DIPLOMACY

      Lenin needed the notorious principles, because he climbed out of his skin trying to smear with dirt the hated RI. In real, not fabulous, life, these principles were never followed or intended to follow.
      1. -3
        11 June 2019 20: 14
        Quote: Dart2027
        The notorious principles needed Lenin, p
        - do not write nonsense.
        And then the French have freedom, equality, fraternity, because they climbed out of their skin trying to mess up the hated royal France with mud. In real, not fabulous, life, these principles were never followed or intended to follow.
        1. 0
          11 June 2019 20: 25
          Quote: naidas
          nonsense do not write

          You didn’t try to read what I wrote?
          Quote: Dart2027
          In real, not fabulous life, no one ever followed these principles and was not going to follow.

          Or will you assure that Lenin did not hate RI?
          1. -2
            11 June 2019 20: 41
            Quote: Dart2027
            Or will you assure that Lenin did not hate RI?

            I affirm that the LENIN PRINCIPLES OF REFUSAL TO SECRET DIPLOMACY are not related to his hatred of RI.
            1. 0
              11 June 2019 21: 14
              Quote: naidas
              LENIN PRINCIPLES OF REFUSAL FROM SECRET DIPLOMACY

              Do you seriously believe that he was so "smart" that he seriously believed in giving up secret diplomacy?
              1. -2
                11 June 2019 22: 29
                Quote: Dart2027
                Do you seriously believe

                Do you seriously believe
                Quote: Dart2027
                Lenin needed the notorious principles, because he climbed out of his skin trying to smear with dirt the hated RI.
                RI has not been half a year already when there was a decree on the abolition of secret diplomacy of November 8 (October 26), 1917.
                1. 0
                  11 June 2019 23: 12
                  Quote: naidas
                  RI has not been there for six months

                  AND? What did this change in the ideological struggle?
    2. +7
      10 June 2019 22: 08
      You elevate the naive slogans of the beginning of the Soviet state to the absolute. Yes, there were such slogans - "A world without annexations and indemnities." But life turned out to be more difficult - and annexations and indemnities continued as before. And diplomacy has always been and will remain with a secret component. By the way, why did Britain suddenly keep the results of negotiations with Hess secret for the next 50 years?
  17. +10
    10 June 2019 19: 55
    However, it is known that already on May 24, it was Great Britain that first made the decision to enter into an alliance with the USSR, and already on May 27 Chamberlain, fearing that Germany would be able to pull the USSR to her side, sent instructions to the British ambassador to Moscow in which he was instructed to give consent discussing a mutual assistance pact, as well as discussing a military convention and possible guarantees for those of the states that might be attacked by Germany.

    Now open Meltuhov:
    In the spring and summer of 1939, England and France again tried to find an acceptable basis for an agreement with Germany, using the threat of rapprochement with the USSR to put pressure on Berlin. However, it was quite obvious that they were not eager to have Moscow as an equal partner - this completely contradicted their foreign policy strategy. It was no accident at the end of July that England informed Germany that negotiations with other countries “are only a reserve means for genuine reconciliation with Germany and that these ties will disappear as soon as the only important and worthy goal is reached — an agreement with Germany”

    Still hoping to reach an agreement with Germany, the British government did not want as a result of negotiations with the USSR “to be drawn into any definite obligation that could tie our hands under any circumstances. Therefore, with regard to a military agreement, one should strive to limit oneself to the more general formulations as possible. ” It is no coincidence that the French delegation had the authority only to negotiate, and the British delegation had no written authority at all.

    Great implementation decisions to make an alliancewhat already there ...
  18. +13
    10 June 2019 20: 11
    Bats do not leave attempts to spoil the Soviet past.
    The author himself pointed out a bunch of all kinds of international treaties concluded in the prewar years. And what happened to them? What again is Stalin to blame? Stalin is absolutely adequate to the political spirit of Europe at that time. And if we consider only the Molotov-Ribentrop Pact as the height of cynicism, then what did all the other treaties cost?
    And what were the politicians who concluded them? They want to convince us that everyone except Stalin was paws. You gentlemen, good ones, will learn to be friends with your head, and not to squeeze bourgeois articles for loot.
  19. +11
    10 June 2019 20: 25
    Quote: kalibr
    Quote: chenia
    And you, Shpakovsky, to moralize on any topic, make people laugh. With your principle - what is profitable. it is moral and the desire to be on the side of the strong, love the scenario ..

    Did Stalin do otherwise? What has put in the forefront the PROFIT or LENIN PRINCIPLES of refusal of SECRET DIPLOMACY?

    You use the words Benefit and Principles so easily. Stalin didn’t spin a bag of potatoes; he made decisions for the life of the country and the people living in it.
  20. +13
    10 June 2019 20: 25
    Another fake called the "Ribetropp-Molotov Pact"

    Someone needs to rewrite History, therefore, literally after the celebration of Victory Day, when millions of people in all the former republics took to the streets to mark this day, the secret protocols of the so-called Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact were allegedly "declassified" and posted online the Internet.

    All the enemies of the USSR are delighted: how could the Soviet Union have not recognized them for so many years, referring to the fact that the Soviet originals were not found, and here such embarrassment - “FOUND!”.
    But there is no embarrassment. This one-on-one fake corresponds to the allegedly found Soviet copy, which was concocted as illiterate as all previous samples of “copies”.

    It is worth paying attention, for example, to a DOT in the heading, all competent typists, but did not keep others in the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, they know that they do not put a point in the headings. The state of Germany - at that time it was officially called the "German Reich" and in the proposed copy it is simply called "Germany", although, for example, Poland is called completely "Polish state".

    In the first paragraph, the boundary of spheres of interest is called NORTH Lithuanian border, not SOUTHERNIt turns out that Lithuania is in the sphere of interests of both the USSR and Germany, and they acceded to it contrary to this protocol.

    The third paragraph of the protocol emphasizes "USSR interest in Bessarabia", but here again illiteracy, which under Stalin could not be allowed, it is further written that from Germany "lack of interest in THESE areas" although it is known that Bessarabia is one area, and here is the plural.

    Pay attention through whom they threw it. You can read about it on the site. https://kungurov.livejournal.com/tag/пакт%20Молотова-Риббентропа .

    There is an ideological war, and we must remember that there is no faith in bourgeois historians, they fulfill the order of the powers that be, and Shpakovsky, as he is a historian, only knows how to replicate fakes.
    1. +8
      10 June 2019 20: 55
      For the sake of fairness, we can assume that such a secret document (if it really existed) was entrusted to print not to qualified typists of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, but to other persons, maybe Molotov himself typed with one finger - hence all the inconsistencies. In one thing, you are absolutely right. The bourgeois "specialists" have compromised themselves with lies to such an extent that they absolutely cannot be trusted.
      1. +4
        10 June 2019 22: 12
        Well, yes, the typist was typing, unable to read, and therefore made mistakes.
      2. 0
        13 June 2019 15: 15
        And what is "so" secret? Other secret documents were trusted by typists, but this one is special?
        And if we assume that Molotov personally printed it, then the "so secret" protocol in such a sloppy execution was signed at such a level?
  21. +12
    10 June 2019 20: 26
    The author brought a lot of condemning this Covenant from himself.
    It is free to have the relation to this question.
    I will be glad that he was not in the place of Stalin and Molotov then. And if he did, then what would he do?
    Would I have continued with the British an endless "discussion" of something incomprehensible? Would you stand as a wall for the interests of Pilsudski's Poland, hostile to us (which was no better than Hitler's Germany, and quite recently flatly refused to let our troops pass to defend Czechoslovakia)?
    And the Japanese, as gracefully bortanuli, directly axis on the head. They then completely did not fully trust Germany and its promises.
    This, among other things, does anyone know that we were able to squeeze a lot of sweets from Germany under this agreement, such as engines and barrels for anti-aircraft guns? And then they reproach us that they brought grain and in exchange for that - silence!
  22. -15
    10 June 2019 20: 30
    Thank. Surprisingly frank article. Tough, but precisely outlining the zigzags of Soviet policy.
  23. +8
    10 June 2019 20: 31
    The dismemberment of the Czechoslovak state was in accordance with the agreement. However, the Germans were not the only predators tormenting the corpse of Czechoslovakia. Immediately after the conclusion of the Munich Agreement on September 30, the Polish government sent an ultimatum to the Czech government, which was to be answered in 24 hours. The Polish government demanded the immediate transfer to him of the Teszyn border region. In 1938, at the time of the crisis, all doors were closed for the English and French ambassadors. They were not even admitted to the Polish Minister of Foreign Affairs. (W. Churchill memoirs ch. 18)

    September 5, 1938, the Polish ambassador in Paris Lukasevich - the US ambassador:
    A religious war begins between fascism and Bolshevism, and if the Soviet Union renders aid to Czechoslovakia, Poland is ready to fight shoulder to shoulder with Germany against the USSR.
    The Polish government is confident that within three months the Russian troops will be completely defeated and Russia will no longer be even a semblance of a state.
    Now tell me - would you sign this secret protocol (on the partition of Poland) or would you wait for the Poles to come for our other territories ?!
  24. The comment was deleted.
  25. -13
    10 June 2019 21: 06
    In such topics, the “red patriots” reveal their true face.
    It already turns out that Hitler was not so bad, and the unpreparedness for a long advancing war was justified, and even genocide with the mass destruction of people is not so bad when he has at least some good for the country ... and then he will be cunningly offended when abroad between communism and right-wing ideologies put an equal sign.
    It is amazing how these same people, who don’t put human life at all, love to write condolences on the events of actual history ...
    1. +4
      10 June 2019 21: 39
      Quote: Corn
      It already turns out and Hitler was not so bad


      And who prepared this dish? Chamberlain said so when he fed him the Czech Republic.

      Quote: Corn
      when abroad between communism and right-wing ideologies they put an equal sign.


      So they were not our well-wishers at that time either. And we put an equal sign between them and the fascists. What do you want. then others thought we were to be destroyed by the "dermocracies" by proxy.
      And if you take off the pink glasses, you could see it (well, if you want).

      .
      Quote: Corn
      It’s amazing how these same people who don’t put human life at all


      In, for sure, German fascism could be stopped in the bud, and not directed (thinking that they govern) to the USSR.
      1. +7
        11 June 2019 12: 26
        No arguments - yes, unkind Corn?
        My colleagues in the forum brilliantly showed how JV Stalin tried by all possible means to delay the inevitable war and at the same time receive for his country, for which he was responsible, the benefit of strengthening the technical capabilities of the army. Well, if so, then according to your logic, which you are trying to impose on everyone here, they did this because Hitler is not bad for them, further on in your text ... That is, they are immoral.
        You are a rascal, Corn!
    2. 0
      14 June 2019 00: 32
      Quote: Corn
      Already turns out and Hitler was not so bad

      Do you think so ?! belay ... no ... and who ?! belay

      shl
      As at one time the people sang a ditty: "Corn is butter, it is bread and sausage!" laughing I will say more, this is a breeding ground for some brains!
  26. -2
    10 June 2019 21: 06
    There is not a single country that is "significant" in the historical sense of the word, which has nothing to be proud of and has nothing to be ashamed of ....
  27. +8
    10 June 2019 21: 20
    The head of state is obliged to defend in every possible way
    interests of this state and its citizens. What Stalin did in this
    moment. And the rest of the time. Lamentation of a sad fate
    Poland is completely inappropriate. Got what they deserved.
  28. +9
    10 June 2019 21: 27
    Something, Vyacheslav Olegovich, the site's "trend" of sketching has captured you in its mighty embrace. I cannot explain to others the structure of the article on such an important historical topic. It was necessary to start such topics not with Lenin's principles of international politics, but with the international situation that had developed at the moment in question.
    And the starting photo is poorly selected.
    It was necessary to begin at least with this.

    This is the historic meeting of the British Foreign Secretary Lord Halifax with Goering at Karinhalle in November 1937. The former Viceroy of India, on behalf of the British government, assured Hitler that Austria "can be taken" and "nothing will come of it."
    (I will continue in the next comment, since two photos are not put in the comment).
    1. +9
      10 June 2019 21: 45
      Further development of the situation is illustrated by this photo.

      The next historical milestone is September 30, 1938. British Prime Minister Neville Chamberlain, French Prime Minister Edouard Daladier, German Reich Chancellor Adolf Hitler and Italian Prime Minister Benito Mussolini. Czechoslovakia "cedes" to Hitler amid fanfare.
      For any sane person it was clear that the German-Polish war became almost inevitable. And any state that was in the zone of this potential conflict was obliged to take all measures to ensure its own security and protect its interests. In the east of Europe, a major military conflict was brewing, which, due to the complete absence of any framework restricting it and in the presence of two major powers with conflicting interests in the region, including territorial ones, could easily develop into a full-scale German-Soviet war.
      Therefore, the Non-aggression pact with Hitler was at that time the best and only choice from the point of view of the Soviet leadership. And from our modern point of view, too, if we, of course, consider the historical process, and not just another sketch for hamsters.
      And it is from this point of view that this document should be considered, and not shed snot and tears "over innocent torn Poland" and "stigmatize the socialist invader Stalin."
      And about the Leninist principles of foreign policy, to which the author appeals.
      I remind you, Vyacheslav Olegovich, Lenin's work "On dogmatism, pomp and hallelujah chants."
      "Any science only becomes a science when it develops. A science that has stopped in its development ceases to be a science ..."
      "Marxism-Leninism, like any other science, cannot but be in constant motion and development."
      Here is Comrade Stalin, as a faithful Leninist, Marxism and Leninism developed, together with the Marxist-Leninist international politics. And I do not want to consider alternatives at all, where we would be if not for this contract.
      1. -2
        11 June 2019 00: 52
        Quote: Undecim
        Here is Comrade Stalin, as a faithful Leninist, Marxism-Leninism
        and developed, along with Marxist-Leninist international politics ...


        Comrade I. Stalin was not entirely thrilled with Marxism,
        yes and from Leninism gradually departed
        1. +4
          11 June 2019 12: 41
          Comrade Stalin was a patriot of his country, he was preoccupied with its survival in a hostile environment and prosperity, and not with exact adherence to Marxist dogmas. After Stalin, dogmas were followed, and we got what we have.
          1. +4
            11 June 2019 17: 14
            Quote: depressant
            he was preoccupied with her survival in a hostile environment and prosperity, and not with exact adherence to Marxist dogmas. After Stalin, dogmas were followed, and we got what we have.

            You are mistaken, dear ..
            Firstly, there is no dogma in Marxism, it is an integral developing doctrine.
            Secondly, Stalin was a true Marxist and clearly followed this teaching,
            Thirdly, after the death of Stalin, subsequent leaders left Marximus, became opportunists, they abandoned the dictatorship of the proletariat, which, according to Marx and Lenin, should be preserved until the classes completely disappear.
            1. -3
              11 June 2019 23: 41
              Quote: Alexander Green (Alexander)
              Firstly, there is no dogma in Marxism, it is an integral developing doctrine.
              Secondly, Stalin was a real Marxist and clearly followed this teaching.


              1. +2
                12 June 2019 09: 14
                AND??? Where did you see the rejection of Marxism here? The statement of the fact that in the social. the economy lacks the capitalist concept of "profit" and everything that is connected with it is already, in your opinion, a rejection of the entire theory of Marx? Is it true? And the creation of general relativity immediately made Newton's mechanics unnecessary rubbish and everyone happily stopped using it? Yes? wassat
                1. -2
                  12 June 2019 10: 15
                  Quote: HanTengri
                  AND??? Where did you see the rejection of Marxism here? The statement of the fact that in the social. the economy lacks the capitalist concept of "profit" and everything connected with it is already, in your opinion, a rejection of the entire theory of Marx? Is it true? And the creation of general relativity immediately made Newton's mechanics unnecessary rubbish and everyone happily stopped using it? Yes? wassat


                  In some conditions, Newtonian mechanics and Euclidean geometry do not work, however, no one considers Newton and Euclid on this basis.
                  outdated and unnecessary.
                  The theory of relativity has generated a heated debate that is not over.

                  I. Stalin did not refuse Marxism, as the history of the emergence of capital and class contradictions due to redistribution of profits
                  in favor of the oligarchs.
                  I. Stalin pointed out that it is not necessary to regard Marxism as a kind of dogma in the conditions of a socialist society, where the cost of goods eventually became determined (though not immediately) by calculating the costs of raw materials, production and associated costs.

                  Quote "... It is clear that Marx uses concepts (categories) that are fully consistent with capitalist relations.
                  But it is more than strange to use these concepts now, when the working class is not only not deprived of power and means of production, but, on the contrary, holds power in its hands and owns the means of production. Now, under our system, the words about labor power as a commodity and about “hiring” workers sound rather absurd: as if the working class, which owns the means of production, hires itself and sells its labor power to itself. . "
                  http://grachev62.narod.ru/stalin/t16/t16_33.htm

                  So was I. Stalin a Marxist or acted on the basis of
                  from the current situation?

                  PS Minister of Finance I. Stalin did not appoint a renowned economist with a Harvard education, but an accountant A. Zverev with common sense.
                  Quote: “Like all good accountants, he was very stubborn and uncompromising. Zverev dared to contradict even Stalin.
                  And here is the indicator of the attitude; The leader not only let this down, but often agreed with his People's Commissar ... "
                  http://cccp-revivel.blogspot.com/2013/01/o-stalinskom-narkome-arsenii-zvereve.html?utm_source=warfiles.ru
                  1. +2
                    12 June 2019 14: 14
                    Quote: Minato2020
                    In some conditions Newtonian mechanics and Euclidean geometry does not work,

                    Well! You see!
                    Quote: Minato2020
                    I. Stalin pointed out that it is not worth treating Marxism as a kind of dogma in the conditions of the emerged socialist society

                    And here you seem to understand!
                    Quote: Minato2020
                    So was I. Stalin a Marxist or acted on the basis of
                    from the current situation?

                    Does one interfere with the other? ... Or maybe Marx in what thread "Secret Protocols to Capital" described in detail how the social services should work. economy, and Stalin said: "Nat. We will not do this!" If not, then what is the problem? Moreover, Marxism is not only Capital ...
                    1. -3
                      12 June 2019 14: 32
                      I agree that Marxism is not only Capital. I would like to add that in Marxism it is difficult to single out an idea that could be considered the main one.
                      After forgetting Marxism-Leninism, you can write an object more or less close to modern realities. It doesn’t matter what it is called, but it should have common sense.
              2. +1
                12 June 2019 17: 07
                For Minato2020

                Dear, we must read the whole of Stalin, and not pull out quotes from the context. It is called dogmatism. Marx has no dogma, his propositions are all correct, he described the mechanism of surplus value that underlies exploitation and outlines the future society, and Stalin began to build this new society and this required a new theory that develops Marxism,. and Stalin in this work does not polemicize with Marx, but with those learned political economists who, not understanding the dialectics, tried to apply the old terms to the new formation (to socialism).
                It is obvious that they are not suitable. So what does Marx have to do with it, the fault of scientists. Unfortunately, this work of Stalin turned out to be almost the only work after Marx and Lenin, which really developed Marxism, apart from the 1954 Political Economy Textbook, which was written under his leadership and his direct participation ...
                1. -1
                  12 June 2019 19: 12
                  Quote: Alexander Green

                  Dear, we must read the whole of Stalin, and not pull out quotes from the context. It is called dogmatism. Marx has no dogma, his propositions are all correct, he described the mechanism of surplus value, which underlies exploitation and outlines the future society ...


                  I am not going to read all of I. Stalin yet, I prefer to pull out quotations, especially since A. Gusev's book "So Stalin Spoke. Conversations with the Leader" is at hand.
                  I didn’t know what quoting is called “chastity” - it’s a religious term, but it’s difficult with religion, possibly because there was no such subject at school.
                  If Marx does not have dogmas and his provisions are correct, then there will be applied application by economists-financiers in the future, but for now I doubt that TNCs and the like are using in business "the mechanism of surplus value, which is the basis of exploitation."
                  If there was a general outline of the future society of Marx / Engels, then the reality is completely different.
                  1. +1
                    12 June 2019 21: 23
                    Quote: Minato2020
                    I prefer to pull out quotations, especially since A. Gusev's book "So Stalin Spoke. Conversations with the Leader" is at hand.

                    Free will, only if you want to know the truth, you need to read Stalin himself, and not those who interpret it. In this book, Gusev said so, not Stalin.

                    Quote: Minato2020
                    If there was a general outline of the future society of Marx / Engels, then the reality is completely different.

                    Read K. Marx "Criticism of the Gotha Program", V.I. Lenin's "State and Revolution" and the Bolshevik Program adopted at the eighth congress, and compare with what Stalin built, and you will see that he built exactly what the classics wrote about. Only the Stalinist period should not be confused with the subsequent periods of Khrushchev-Brezhnev-Gorbachov.
                    1. 0
                      12 June 2019 23: 46
                      In addition to the above;

                      Quote: Alexander Green
                      Quote: Minato2020
                      I prefer to pull out quotations, especially since A. Gusev's book "So Stalin Spoke. Conversations with the Leader" is at hand.

                      Free will, only if you want to know the truth, you need to read Stalin himself, and not those who interpret it. In this book, Gusev said so, not Stalin.


                      Remember one joke about: why you need to read the sources, and not the interpreters.

                      Two comrades talked about Caruso. The first began to admire him, and the second stopped him: "What are you talking about, your Caruso has neither a hearing, nor a voice, besides, he also lisps"
                      - "Did you hear Caruso?"
                      - "No, my neighbor Abram Moiseevich sang to me yesterday."
                    2. 0
                      14 June 2019 02: 10
                      Quote: Alexander Green
                      Free will, only if you want to know the truth, you need to read Stalin himself, and not those who interpret it. In this book, Gusev said so, not Stalin.

                      Read K. Marx "Criticism of the Gotha Program", V.I. Lenin's "State and Revolution" and the Bolshevik Program adopted at the eighth congress, and compare with what Stalin built, and you will see that he built exactly what the classics wrote about. Only the Stalinist period should not be confused with the subsequent periods of Khrushchev-Brezhnev-Gorbachov.


                      In the book of A. Gusev "So said Stalin. Conversations with the leader"I. Stalin's answers to questions on various topics are given. For example - About the repressions of 1937, About the war with Finland, About the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact and the responsibility of Poland, About the failures of the beginning of the war, and the like.
                      Questions from those on which there are discussions in our time. The answers are taken from various speeches of I. Stalin, reports, letters and the like. You can check the correctness of citation according to the original source, since an indication is given where the quote was taken from.
                      Unfortunately, I don’t have the sources of I. Stalin; I’m checking from sources posted on the Internet.

                      I do not plan to read the works of K. Marx, V. Lenin, I. Stalin, although I do not exclude this possibility.
                      In principle, I can take note of the following paradigm.
                      Firstly, there is no dogma in Marxism, it is an integral developing doctrine.
                      Secondly, Stalin was a true Marxist and clearly followed this teaching,
                      Thirdly, after the death of Stalin, subsequent leaders abandoned Marxism, became opportunists, they abandoned the dictatorship of the proletariat, which, according to K. Marx and V. Lenin, should be preserved until the classes completely disappear.

                      True, the question immediately arises - if Marxism is an integral developing doctrine, I. Stalin was a real Marxist and clearly followed this doctrine, and subsequent leaders moved away from Marxism and became opportunists, then what the Institute of Marxism-Leninism did for more than 30 years after I.'s death Stalin?
                      Why the work of I. Stalin "The economic problems of socialism in the USSR"
                      (not counting the 1954 Political Economy Textbook edition, which was written under the guidance of I. Stalin and his direct participation)
                      turned out to be practically the only work (after K. Marx and V. Lenin) that really developed Marxism?
                      What did the teachers of Marxism-Leninism teach during the Khrushchev-Brezhnev-Gorbachev period, if they did not mention the contribution of I. Stalin to the development of Marxism?
                      1. 0
                        14 June 2019 21: 58
                        Quote: Minato2020
                        The answers are taken from various speeches of I. Stalin, reports, letters and the like. You can check the correctness of citation according to the original source, since an indication is given where the quote was taken from.
                        Unfortunately, I don’t have the sources of I. Stalin; I’m checking from sources posted on the Internet.

                        According to quotes that others put up, one can’t always correctly understand the author’s thought, therefore, you need to read the quote in the contest of the entire document or article. Here you can find all the works of Stalin.
                        http://le-tireur.ucoz.ru/Stalin_pss/Stalin.html
                      2. 0
                        16 June 2019 16: 54
                        Thank you for the link provided by I. Stalin.
                        I can offer links to various topics, though from Google and in PDF format.

                        Dialectical and historical materialism. M. Mitin. 1934 https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxXGgnRU3hpHb1U1RGdxSFhwRUk/view

                        Political Economy. K.V. Ostrovityanov, D.T. Shepilov, L.A. Leontyev, I.D. Laptev, I.I. Kuzminov, L. M. Gatovsky. 1954 https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxXGgnRU3hpHbU1ET3VLSl91OFk/view

                        Logics. S.N. Vinogradov and A.F. Kuzmin. 1954
                        https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxXGgnRU3hpHY3JiVE0zU0RrUUk/view

                        Psychology. B.M. Heat. 1953
                        https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxXGgnRU3hpHZlVFdUNsck5PQms/view
                      3. +1
                        16 June 2019 22: 13
                        Quote: Minato2020
                        I can offer links to various topics, though from Google and in PDF format.

                        Thank you, I have all of them, these are very good books, I wish you success in learning. During the perestroika, I also started with them.
                        Take a look at http://bolshevick.org/, contact your comrades, there is a school of Marxism-Leninism ..
                      4. 0
                        17 June 2019 00: 03
                        Quote: Alexander Green

                        Take a look at http://bolshevick.org/, contact your comrades, there is a school of Marxism-Leninism ..


                        Thank you for the link to the site, I will look as far as possible, but not yet to the connections, especially since I still have questions for Marxism, for which an independent study of the sources will have to be answered, it will take time
                      5. +1
                        17 June 2019 14: 09
                        Quote: Minato2020
                        it will take time

                        Wish you success. To help, I can still advise watching videos on YouTube with Professor Mikhail Vasilievich Popov, co-chair of the Russian Workers 'Party (Fund of the Workers' Academy). He is one of the most competent Marxists to date.
      2. +9
        11 June 2019 03: 17
        Quote: Undecim
        And I don’t want to consider alternatives at all, where we would have been if not for this agreement.

        Just Comrade. Shpakovsky, as usual, confuses us with his suckling students, who don’t know a damn thing.
        1. +4
          11 June 2019 11: 36
          Quote: Mordvin 3
          Just Comrade. Shpakovsky, as usual, confuses us with his suckling students, who don’t know a damn thing.

          And what else is he teaching somewhere else? Poor students, in that case ....
          1. +2
            11 June 2019 11: 41
            Quote: ccsr
            And what else does he teach?

            No longer. He quit that year, at the Penza University they pay little, as he said. Here, on free breads ...
          2. -3
            11 June 2019 13: 26
            There are many of my textbooks on the Internet, on which Russian students studied and study.
            1. +2
              11 June 2019 13: 50
              Quote: kalibr
              There are many of my textbooks on the Internet, on which Russian students studied and study.

              If you approach the choice of reliable sources of information, then you can imagine what nonsense you can write in your textbooks, guided by hatred of the Soviet past. I feel sorry for those who study in your textbooks, because they will have a distorted view of our history.
              1. -2
                11 June 2019 15: 44
                No need to imagine anything, why fantasies - you open and read, do you not know how to use the Internet?
                1. +3
                  11 June 2019 18: 50
                  Quote: kalibr
                  You don’t have to imagine anything, why fantasies - you open and read,

                  Do you think it makes sense to read your books after you have presented your article on the Internet on the Internet? Do not flatter yourself - she immediately showed the quality of your work, which is why I consider it to be counterproductive to spend time on your work.
        2. +2
          11 June 2019 21: 28
          Quote: Mordvin 3

          Just Comrade. Shpakovsky, as usual, confuses us with his suckling students, who don’t know a damn thing.

          So Shpakovsky also gives lectures to students ?? !!! Poor students. They all have to relearn.
  29. -10
    10 June 2019 21: 31
    Quote: Undecim
    It was necessary to start such topics not with Leninist principles of international politics, but with the international situation that had developed at the moment under consideration.

    Everyone has their own vision ... Isn't it?
  30. -10
    10 June 2019 21: 34
    Quote: M. Michelson
    Surprisingly frank article.

    I have all the articles candid. Why darken something ...
  31. +13
    10 June 2019 21: 35
    Cit. by: A. Kungurov. Secret Protocols, or Who Forged the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact, M., 2009

    The expression “graphological examination” sounds as reasonable as “alchemical examination”.

    Alas, fraudsters, graphology is pseudoscience, “character by handwriting,” and the forensic examination of handwriting is called handwriting.

    It is clear that if the unfortunate person who wrote these lines read the act of handwriting examination, which established the authenticity of the signature of at least one Molotov, then he would not have made such a gross and ignorant mistake.

    This, of course, is a blatant lie: there was no handwriting examination.

    Strange as it may seem, this mistake is widespread: even on the highest floors of the prosecutor's office there are investigators who never ordered a handwriting examination and, accordingly, confidently use this phrase - “graphological examination”.

    No, Mikhail Sergeyevich, one must also be able to lie: this is a delicate and responsible matter, even a professional one.

    “Phototechnical expertise” is something mysterious.

    The only existing text of the “Secret Additional Protocol” is a photocopy of the typescript. And what exactly did “phototechnical expertise” establish?

    Is text printed on a computer printer?

    But this can be seen without any examination, by eye (letters in computer printing will not jump in a line, etc.).

    Suppose, a question might arise whether the texts of the genuine Non-aggression Treaty between the USSR and Germany and the fake "Secret Additional Protocol" were printed on one machine.

    But the original non-aggression pact is absent for some reason ... What did the “expertise” do?

    Well, if a criminal case is finally opened on the fact of the crimes of our group of falsifiers, some of which are still alive, then there will be an examination, and not one.

    Initiation of a case in this case has nothing to do with the statute of limitations: the Soviet Criminal Code prescribes the statute of limitations for the execution articles at the discretion of the court.

    So we look forward to the examination in the framework of the criminal case under Art. 64 of the Criminal Code of the RSFSR "Treason to the Motherland" and wish good health to citizen Gorbachev M.S. - if not to the accused, then to an important witness in the case.

    “Lexical examination” is a “verbal” examination.

    It is not clear how a “lexical examination” of a document with gross grammatical errors, “lexical”, for example, “by both sides” could pass, and this expression appears three times in the text.

    Even a schoolboy would have noticed this mistake: on both sides.

    We can hardly find at least one document of the highest state power with such a gross grammatical error.

    There are other errors, such as “delimiting”, with the letter “Z” attributed to the ink above.

    This, of course, is also absurd: there is probably no other document with a corrected grammatical error.

    Gross grammatical errors should also include spelling instability, which is characteristic of semi-illiterate people: the Baltic States and two times the Polish State.

    In addition, neither the first spelling with a capital letter, "Baltic", nor the second, "State", does not comply with the norms of the Russian language.

    Try to find at least one literate text in Russian, which would even say, for example, “European states” instead of the usual European states, not to mention the word “State”.

    By the way, the English text of this protocol published on the Internet contains the indicated spelling instability: “Baltic States” versus “Polish state” [2].

    This is an American darling: the name United States (United States) must, of course, be written in capital letters, but in general the word state (state) is written, of course, with a lowercase letter.

    In other words, the name United States is capitalized only because it is its own.

    The name Baltic states is not proper.

    Americans write all names and their derivatives in capital letters, for example Russians (Russians), but with us this is possible only if this is a proper name, subject, for example, Russian state, i.e., translating into the American way, defined in sense of the article.

    In the plural, the definite article is usually not used; say, the combination of American states in Russian must be written with lowercase letters.

    This will correspond to the American indefinite article, i.e. the name is not objective, common, as a combination of the Baltic states.

    Certainty in this combination, the capital letter, would have arisen, for example, in the agreement of the three Baltic states with Russia.

    Another example, in Soviet international treaties you can probably meet the word Government with a capital letter denoting the subject of the treaty, but in Soviet newspapers the steady combination of “party and government” has always been written in lowercase letters.

    It is permissible, however, in newspapers to use the words Government of the USSR in a more or less official text.

    The difference here is approximately the same, I repeat, as between the English indefinite and certain articles.

    Total in the text of the protocol five grammatical errors on one page. Well, and what unfortunate person did “lexical examination”?

    This semi-literate daub could not stand the criticism even of a school teacher of the Russian language.

    Another gross mistake of the falsifiers is that in office work the signature stamp of a document cannot be put out in its heading: “Secret Additional Protocol”.

    In addition, the essence of the document should be reflected in the title: an additional protocol to what?

    This is an extremely ignorant person who did not have any idea about office work.

    And to take this nonsense seriously could only persons as mentally retarded as the falsifier — our bow to Mikhail Sergeyevich.

    This document could not pass a single examination, this is excluded.

    There is a gross factual mistake in the document - the assignment of Finland to the Baltic states: “In the case of a territorial and political reorganization of the regions that are part of the Baltic states (Finland, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania) ...” -

    Not a single person in the USSR, not even Russian, could simply write this nonsense, and will we have the most important state documents with factual errors?

    For Russians, Finland is not a Baltic state - neither Poland, nor Germany, nor Denmark, nor Sweden is it. Again ignorant American daub.

    “What people don’t even know geography?” - “But we do business well ...”

    The “secret additional protocol” was, of course, slept by the American: of all the peoples of the world, only Americans have no idea whatsoever of jurisdiction, which was personally shown, for example, by the Bout process.

    It was completely useless to formalize legally that which does not and cannot have legal force.

    In addition, the legal design of the “Secret Additional Protocol” leaves much to be desired: if there are signatures on the interstate document, then there should be state seals.

    Here, for example, is an archival sample of an interstate agreement: http: //www.rusarchives.ru/evan ...

    Unfortunately, in the USSR, the originals of interstate documents were never published, and the texts are infrequent, and many people bought into a stupid American daub just out of ignorance.

    The highest officials spreading the fake cannot be suspected of ignorance.

    There are no seals on the American fake, probably because it was difficult to make them, and the American public, half-literate by the grace of their government, hardly imagining even where Germany is located, simply does not need such subtleties.

    Most Americans could not even have imagined that a signed interstate document without seals was invalid in the legal sense.

    For inciting ethnic hatred to the US government, the most primitive fake was enough.

    Well, and what unfortunate person did the “examination” of the “Secret Additional Protocol”?

    Should I ask citizen Gorbachev, who signed this nonsense?
    Alas, there was no examination, there was not even a careful reading of this stupid American dirty cloth.
    1. +6
      11 June 2019 00: 23
      Most likely, this fake was made already in the post-Horbachev era (then it would have been used — Yakovlev was brandishing it with a British microfilm then) and, even, after Yeltsin’s one (he would have used it at that notorious CPSU trial). This is a remake. Well, I really want the current government to humiliate Stalin and the USSR — they look very pale against their background!
      1. -4
        11 June 2019 11: 11
        Vladimir, you give me an extra reason to believe that a significant part of commentators like you are just stupid people. Not giving yourself the trouble to think. Do you really think that making fakes of such a level was entrusted to people ... like you? They would also attract experts in the protocol, and use samples of documents from that time — compare and look at it and check the text more than once. Just to ensure that the mosquito nosa is not undermined. And here the document was clearly hastily and with errors, a document was made ... yes, Molotov himself squeezed it with one finger, and that was the result. Do you think that filicsifiers are more stupid than people or lacking relevant information and opportunities? It's funny, yes ... However, I did not expect anything else, in general. It is known that 80% of people in society, to put it mildly, are not smart, and intelligent only 20% + - some%. So everything is as it should be.
        1. +2
          11 June 2019 11: 37
          Based on the fact that one comment, one opponent did not like, write about the stupidity of other people !!!!!! Just a class (sarcasm)
          1. -2
            11 June 2019 12: 39
            It seems that you had a good memory, Dima, and you should remember that this indicator is not taken on the basis of one example.
        2. +2
          11 June 2019 14: 58
          Quote: kalibr
          Yes, Molotov himself stuck it with one finger, that's the result

          Your version looks unlikely for several reasons. Firstly, Molotov is a man from an intelligent family with a good (especially at that time) education. At one time he wrote poetry and worked as a secretary of the editorial office of the newspaper "Pravda". Secondly, E. Rodzinsky characterizes him as a scrupulous and meticulous person, especially in working with documents, for which he received the nickname "stone ass" from his associates. Thirdly, it is difficult to call Molotov an independent politician, because he had to agree on the text with Stalin, and it is very difficult to attribute him to those 80% of not smart people in society. In my opinion, this "opus" Molotov could sign (and even more so write) only under the influence of force majeure, in the form of an NKVD officer with a pistol at the back of his head.
        3. +1
          11 June 2019 17: 17
          Quote: kalibr
          They would also attract experts in the protocol, and would use sample documents of the time — to compare and look and the text would be checked more than once.

          For each sage is quite simplicity.
          1. -1
            11 June 2019 17: 39
            In such serious matters, even consult with experts. He knew many ... and they asked the opinions of experts and even paid them for their opinions. So the saying here is not suitable ...
            1. +2
              11 June 2019 17: 53
              Quote: kalibr
              In such serious matters, even consult with experts. He knew many ... and they asked the opinions of experts and even paid them for their opinions. So the saying here is not suitable ...

              And you read the speeches of the late State Duma deputy Ilyukhin, where he very well describes how fakes were made, and the former editor of the Duel newspaper Mukhin describes well all the flaws of the "specialists" who participated in this case. So for every sage, there really is enough simplicity.
        4. +3
          11 June 2019 21: 48
          Quote: kalibr
          Do you really think that the production of fakes of this level has been entrusted to people ... like you?

          Why make a fake more authentic? For those like you, what is presented is enough. Didn't you believe? Despite the obviousness of the fake! How is it there? - ..... I'm glad to be deceived myself! And where did you get the idea that the fake is made necessarily by the state. structures? I found some kind of .... illiterate, but hating the USSR and concocted a "document" to your delight.
        5. 0
          14 June 2019 15: 06
          Yes, they are still fabricating fakes of the same level! They don't need "scrupulousness". They replace her with bucks and grunts in the media. And quite successfully.
  32. -12
    10 June 2019 21: 37
    Did not the Congress of Deputies of the Holy USSR admit the existence of this protocol in 1989 year? Did not Lenin applaud the abolition of secret diplomacy?
    1. +16
      10 June 2019 22: 50
      Quote: kalibr
      Did not the Congress of Deputies of the Holy USSR admit the existence of this protocol in 1989 year?

      The 1989 Congress of USSR Deputies was no longer Soviet in its composition; anti-Soviet leaders such as Yakovlev, Sakharov, Sobchak, Popov, Afanasyev and others like them stirred up the water and refueled at the congress. The information of the Yakovlev Commission was thrown without discussion, the effect was the same as after Khrushchev's report at the 20th Congress of the CPSU, the lie was so great that many were simply in shock.

      Then I wrote letters to the Central Committee, articles to the Pravda newspaper. with their revelations on this fake, but none of the political leadership at that time needed it. And only after the publication of the letter by N. Andreeva "I cannot compromise the principles" and the organization of the Bolshevik platform in the CPSU, objective materials began to leak into the press.

      So the references to the 1989 congress are not correct, it was already an anti-conscience congress, the time will come and its decisions will be canceled ..
      1. +2
        11 June 2019 11: 31
        Great comment, Alexander! Interestingly, while they answered letters like yours? Or were they silent?
        1. +2
          11 June 2019 16: 57
          Quote: Reptiloid
          Or were they silent?

          They didn’t come from the Central Committee, but they replied from Truth that they would take it into account and pass it on as intended. As I understand it, they transferred Yakovlev to the same commission.
          1. +1
            11 June 2019 18: 03
            Quote: Alexander Green
            Quote: Reptiloid
            Or were they silent?

            They didn’t come from the Central Committee, but they replied from Truth that they would take it into account and pass it on as intended. As I understand it, they transferred Yakovlev to the same commission.

            I have some problems with the Internet, Alexander. Very interesting, but do you keep this answer? Do you have an archive?
            1. +2
              11 June 2019 20: 06
              Quote: Reptiloid
              Very interesting, but do you keep this answer? Do you have an archive?

              It is necessary to search, I will find - I will send.
      2. +2
        11 June 2019 21: 57
        Quote: Alexander Green

        The 1989 Congress of Deputies of the USSR was no longer Soviet in its composition; anti-Soviet leaders such as Yakovlev, Sakharov, Sobchak, Popov, Afanasyev and others like them were muddied

        My respect to you, Alexander.
    2. +4
      11 June 2019 03: 20
      Quote: kalibr
      Did not the Congress of Deputies of the Holy USSR admit the existence of this protocol in 1989 year?

      What a terrific Argument, Shpakovsky! Furiously handshake! If a collection of people, many different professions, attitudes, etc., decided to consider the document authentic - so be it!
      Are you definitely a historian? wassat
      1. +3
        11 June 2019 03: 30
        Quote: Beringovsky
        Quote: kalibr
        Did not the Congress of Deputies of the Holy USSR admit the existence of this protocol in 1989 year?

        What a terrific Argument, Shpakovsky!

        Why? Here is the Pope and recognizes. And then the Dalai Lama ... And then - Gundyaev ... What are we going to make excuses for? BUT? After all, we will cast aside with censers.
        1. -5
          11 June 2019 07: 10
          Vladimir! It is done like this: here you personally, for example, have doubts about this document. You ... raise the public, gather an initiative group, demand an independent examination. Sleep by the document drawer in person. As a result, the "top" cannot but agree with the opinion of the people. An examination is carried out and everything is put in its place. You are proud of your historical role. And farting into the water, as you and other commentators do, is ridiculous. The document is recognized at all levels, and ... some somewhere down there "are summed up". Yes ugh on them. That's all!
          1. +1
            11 June 2019 09: 35
            Quote: kalibr
            and ... some somewhere down there "are summed up". Yes ugh on them. That's all!

            As if this "Ugh" would not get back.
            1. -5
              11 June 2019 11: 11
              Quote: Mordvin 3
              As if

              Your how cheap would be
              1. +5
                11 June 2019 11: 29
                Quote: kalibr
                Your how cheap would be

                You know, Shpakovsky, I live according to my conscience. And you have neither conscience nor morality. You are just a fitter.
                1. -5
                  11 June 2019 12: 48
                  Happy for you, Vladimir! When a lot of things are not there - take the head comforter!
            2. +2
              11 June 2019 11: 27
              Quote: mordvin xnumx
              Quote: kalibr
              and ... some somewhere down there "are summed up". Yes ugh on them. That's all!

              As if this "Ugh" would not get back.

              Interestingly, Vladimir, how expensive can such repetitive shocking cost?
              1. +3
                11 June 2019 11: 30
                Quote: Reptiloid
                how expensive can such repetitive outrage be?

                What I do not know, I do not know.
                1. +2
                  11 June 2019 13: 32
                  worth something, Vladimir, because the opponent is often talking about his own profit, self-interest, money
                  1. -2
                    11 June 2019 15: 53
                    Immediately Dima will disappoint and please you - it is worth, yes, as much as you never dreamed of. But in order to receive so much, one must have crusts and not alone, but preferably a lot. Therefore, whether you are interested or not, you will not benefit from this.
                    1. +2
                      11 June 2019 16: 23
                      Quote: kalibr
                      Immediately Dima will disappoint and please you - it is worth, yes, as much as you never dreamed of. But in order to receive so much, one must have crusts and not alone, but preferably a lot. Therefore, whether you are interested or not, you will not benefit from this.
                      Why should I be upset or glad? I earn differently, that's why it's interesting.
                      1. -2
                        11 June 2019 16: 37
                        Quote: Reptiloid
                        I earn money differently, that's why it's interesting.

                        Exactly, we belong to completely different strata of society and together we will not converge. But I'm not fantasizing about yours, however, and you about mine all the time, how can I explain this?
                      2. 0
                        11 June 2019 18: 19
                        Quote: kalibr
                        Quote: Reptiloid
                        I earn money differently, that's why it's interesting.

                        Exactly, we belong to completely different strata of society and together we will not converge. But I'm not fantasizing about yours, however, and you about mine all the time, how can I explain this?

                        I’m not a fantasy, Vyacheslav Olegovich, but I’m interested in and making clicks, as you always remind us. Then, if you didn’t write about personal things, then I would not be interested, moreover, it’s not known whether you are this or not you, or your literary hero ???
                        You rarely go to St. Petersburg, but I don’t go to Penza!
          2. 0
            11 June 2019 19: 48
            some somewhere down there "are summed up". Yes ugh on them. That's all!

            [media = https: //vk.com/video194887620_456239352]
            1. 0
              11 June 2019 19: 52

              If you spit ...
          3. +1
            11 June 2019 22: 15
            Quote: kalibr
            You ... raise the public, gather an initiative group, demand

            Is it you that troll Vladimir? I apologize for the intervention.
            This fake is OBVIOUS and not worth a damn. And for this "gathering an initiative group," and so on? Yes, I don't care if the hoopoes from the USSR Armed Forces since Gorby have recognized something. I have my own head on my shoulders. I recommend Le Bon "Crowd Psychology". After reviewing, you will probably understand how decisions are made by a large gathering of people.
          4. 0
            14 June 2019 00: 20
            Quote: kalibr
            Document recognized at all levels

            Well ... let's bring all these confessions of all these levels ...
    3. Fat
      0
      11 June 2019 10: 38
      Quote: kalibr
      Didn't Lenin applaud the abolition of secret diplomacy?

      Probably applauded ... Therefore, in such cases, R. Sheckley's quote is often recalled: "All Brahmins - d-mo!" - said the Buddha, but later was forced to change his point of view.
  33. -11
    10 June 2019 21: 41
    Quote: faterdom
    It is free to have the relation to this question.

    Why do you not read carefully? The article just says that it would be necessary to do in the end ... Do not get to this?
    1. The comment was deleted.
  34. -7
    10 June 2019 21: 44
    Quote: Campanella
    and not for the loot burzhuinskoe little articles squeeze.

    You know exactly what kind of burzhuinskoe ... then tell where it should be. Like, I have accurate data ...
    1. 0
      11 June 2019 03: 29
      Quote: kalibr
      Quote: Campanella
      and not for the loot burzhuinskoe little articles squeeze.

      You know exactly what kind of burzhuinskoe ... then tell where it should be. Like, I have accurate data ...

      Uh, sly what!
      A barrel of jam and a basket of cookies wanted? wassat
  35. -9
    10 June 2019 21: 47
    Quote: Dart2027
    In real, not fabulous life, no one ever followed these principles and was not going to follow.

    That is, the policy of the USSR has always been unprincipled? . In words, one thing, in fact the other - is not it?
  36. -9
    10 June 2019 21: 54
    Quote: Beringovsky
    And where did he lead, I apologize? To Gagarin, universal health care and education, powerful science, etc.?
    Hmm, right, the way is not there.

    And straight into the 1991 year !, right?
    1. +4
      11 June 2019 03: 25
      And straight into the 1991 year !, right?

      Well, the story is not over yet, let's see where the world will lead your capitalism, devoid of the counterweight of socialism.
      It seems he is rolling in ... In general, it was there)))))
    2. +2
      11 June 2019 12: 08
      But aren’t you like propagandists-hypocrites and liars in the end led the country to collapse?
  37. +8
    10 June 2019 22: 15
    I had not noticed before such a terry anti-Soviet for a non-comrade Shpakovsky ....
    You can still trust the person who provides the FSE only as a last resort:
    This time, he carefully pretended to be an agent - he scribbled something about lytsals, but meanwhile he drank, smoked, and, so to speak, decayed! am
  38. -7
    10 June 2019 23: 29
    For a long time, these documents were kept in the library.
    Harvard University. They were among the archives exported by the military.
    German Foreign Ministry. There was German text of the pact and applications.
    It was translated a long time ago into English and Russian and published.
    There are no discrepancies between the text and the copy from the archive of the Russian Ministry of Foreign Affairs.
    In Russia, the text is stored in Russian and German with signatures.
    1. 0
      14 June 2019 00: 16
      Quote: voyaka uh
      In Russia, the text is stored in Russian and German with signatures.

      And where to be stored ... is there any clear evidence?
      Quote: voyaka uh
      For a long time, these documents were kept in the library.
      Harvard University.
      And where are they now ?!
      And the fact that some old pieces of paper are stored somewhere in the west ... so such fakes were made then and now, and will be done more than once or twice ...
    2. 0
      14 June 2019 15: 13
      As long as the anti-Soviet rule there and there, the possibility of collusion and joint fabrication cannot be ruled out.
  39. -10
    10 June 2019 23: 37
    Respect for the author
  40. The comment was deleted.
  41. +1
    11 June 2019 00: 14
    Quote: Mestny
    This is exactly about the power in the USSR.
    Only there for such a statement they could not just "think the wrong way." For a shadow of doubt. The communists are known for their fanatical hatred of those who simply did not have time to vehemently agree with them.

    How! I confirm it! And so you will be installed, caught, then quartered, wheeled, and .... deprived of business! If of course you have it! And he, I assume you have it! wassat tongue lol
  42. +2
    11 June 2019 00: 17
    Quote: kalibr
    Quote: Campanella
    and not for the loot burzhuinskoe little articles squeeze.

    You know exactly what kind of burzhuinskoe ... then tell where it should be. Like, I have accurate data ...

    Where should you go? No Cheka, OGPU, NKVD, KGB, too, where ...? lol wassat tongue
    1. -3
      11 June 2019 06: 54
      About the FSB forgot, right?
  43. +4
    11 June 2019 00: 45
    I wonder if this is such a "secret document", then how did it become known about it? Who was the first to talk about him and when?

    In appearance - complete garbage. The diplomatic value of the document is zero. Two leaflets with typewritten text. To the typist - 15 minutes of work. Why did they make it up?

    The first sheet without any marks. Not even initialed. Change it to whatever you want. How to determine in general that these are sheets of one document? On the second - two signatures, clearly made by one fountain pen. Interestingly, did Molotov or Fritz not have his own?

    And how do you like the inscription in the handwriting of a fifth grader "For the Government of Germany:"?

    By the way, whose signature is there?

    Point 4 makes you just cry. Pure "Tom Sawyer".

    For me, so miserable craft of either Khrushchev's or Yakovlev's fornication.

    The goal is clear. To lie to Stalin and his politics. Pre-war history of the USSR.

    Why did our Foreign Ministry start this? Yes then the same. This figure is becoming too popular.
    1. +4
      11 June 2019 11: 46
      Quote: crashing
      For me, so miserable craft of either Khrushchev's or Yakovlev's fornication.

      Do not get Khrushchev involved in this matter - the document was concocted in Yakovlev’s time, because then there was a need to present the CPSU as a world evil, that’s why this linden appeared in the media and was used for a propaganda war.
      1. +2
        11 June 2019 15: 19
        Quote: ccsr
        Do not get Khrushchev into this business ...


        How can I do this? I just think that the submitted papers are fake, and rough, and suggested when they might appear.
    2. +2
      11 June 2019 22: 23
      Quote: crashing
      For me, so miserable craft of either Khrushchev's or Yakovlev's fornication.

      Yakovlevsky. And one Zorya led the brigade of fruiting fakes, I don’t remember I.O.
  44. The comment was deleted.
  45. +6
    11 June 2019 01: 02
    The next episode also suggests that the credibility of the published "secret protocol" is questionable.
    For the first time the existence of a secret protocol was announced to the world by the lawyer of Rudolf Hess at the Nuremberg trials, lawyer Seidl. In doing so, he referred to the affidavit, or affidavit, of Friedrich Haus. Above, in the first photo of the article, he is just on the left. Gaus's first affidavit, dated 15.03.1946/11.04.1946/2012, was rejected by the tribunal. Seidl asked Gaus for a second, dated 17.05.1946/XNUMX/XNUMX. But the second was also rejected. In the documents of the Nuremberg trials, there are only these two affidavits of Gaus. In his book The Rudolf Hess Case, Attorney Seidl also talks about these two testimonies from Gaus. Gaus's bibliographer Professor Stüby also knows of only two affidavits. However, the Yakovlev Foundation in XNUMX published the book "The USSR and the Nuremberg Trials. Unknown and Little-Known Pages of History", in which Gaus's third affidavit of XNUMX/XNUMX/XNUMX was published with reference to the State Archives of the Russian Federation. However, a number of facts indicate that the unknown third affidavit of Gaus, opened by the Yakovlev Foundation, is a clear forgery.
    Read more: Andrei Plotnikov, "The Mystery of the Death of Rudolf Hess: Diary of the Overseer of the Spandau Inter-Union Prison", Chapter 10 "Unknown Documents of the Nuremberg Trials".
  46. -2
    11 June 2019 02: 02
    "However, in our history after 1917, we have often encountered (and continue to encounter) such" moments "when the elite of the country endowed with power seemed to follow Lenin's behests in words, but in fact acted secretly from the people and hid a lot from them. important information for him. " - Well, firstly, the precepts of Lenin's grandfather are not relevant and have no strength in capitalist and democratic Russia (and there are much more democracy in the Russian Federation than in many other countries who boast about it). Secondly, it would be absolutely stupid to play with open cards in political preference in the company of notorious world swindlers. That is why Putin is not as stupid as his “colleagues and partners” would like and prefers diplomacy like “judo”. The picture of the second page causes surprise and doubt: "By the authority of the Government ..." and next to it so clumsily about the German powers, and then painting with one feather and, most likely, with one handwriting? ... In general, everything that touched the little hands of Yakovlev and his gopniks today raises very, very big doubts about the authenticity and suggests a fake. The documents about Katyn are also very doubtful. And everything connected with her ...
    1. -2
      11 June 2019 02: 14
      And what is the prohibition, dove-winged pigeons? What is it that has again bothered you?
    2. 0
      11 June 2019 02: 24
      Look at the signatures on the second sheet for the writing of the first letters - they are very similar, and the impression is that Ribbentrop or the one who signed him wrote very slowly, trying not to repeat himself, the same story with a dash over the "t" in the signatures of Molotv and Ribbentrop , both begin with a rounding, only in the second case it looks somehow uncertain.
  47. -5
    11 June 2019 06: 58
    Quote: Beringovsky
    Uh, sly what!
    A barrel of jam and a basket of cookies wanted?

    You did not mess up?
  48. -3
    11 June 2019 07: 02
    Quote: mikh-korsakov
    both of these armies were not dangerous for the USSR

    After September 28 did not represent. Read the articles more carefully ..
  49. -4
    11 June 2019 07: 03
    Quote: Beringovsky
    What a terrific Argument, Shpakovsky! Furiously handshake! If a collection of people, many different professions, attitudes, etc., decided to consider the document authentic - so be it!

    Exactly!
  50. -5
    11 June 2019 07: 04
    Quote: Alexander Green
    Then I wrote letters to the Central Committee, articles to the Pravda newspaper. with their revelations on this fake, but none of the political leadership at that time needed it. And only after the publication of the letter by N. Andreeva "I cannot compromise the principles" and the organization of the Bolshevik platform in the CPSU, objective materials began to leak into the press.

    It did not help, however ... You can not overturn the butt with the whip.
    1. +2
      11 June 2019 17: 34
      Quote: kalibr
      It did not help, however ... You can not overturn the butt with the whip.

      A drop wears away a stone.
  51. -3
    11 June 2019 07: 12
    Quote: Minato2020
    Comrade I. Stalin was not entirely thrilled with Marxism,
    yes and from Leninism gradually departed

    Wonderful comment!
    1. +4
      11 June 2019 17: 33
      Quote: kalibr
      Quote: Minato2020
      Comrade I. Stalin was not entirely thrilled with Marxism,
      yes and from Leninism gradually departed

      Wonderful comment!

      What's so great about this? This was written by a reader who understands nothing about Marxism
      1. -2
        12 June 2019 01: 11
        Quote: Alexander Green
        Quote: kalibr
        Quote: Minato2020
        Comrade I. Stalin was not entirely thrilled with Marxism,
        yes and from Leninism gradually departed

        Wonderful comment!

        What's so great about this? This was written by a reader who is into Marxism
        doesn't understand anything


        Few people understand the nature of the origin of electricity.
        However, everyone uses electricity and no one has canceled Kirchhoff’s rules.

        I. Stalin designated Marxism as a system developed for understanding capitalism and offered his vision: “...It is clear that Marx uses concepts (categories) that are completely consistent with capitalist relations.
        But it is more than strange to use these concepts now, when the working class is not only not deprived of power and the means of production, but, on the contrary, holds power in its hands and owns the means of production. Sounds pretty absurd now
        under our system, words about labor power as a commodity, and about the “hiring” of workers: as if the working class, which owns the means of production, hires itself and [p.165] sells its labor power to itself..."

        http://grachev62.narod.ru/stalin/t16/t16_33.htm

        In the same place: “...They say that the contradictions between capitalism and socialism are stronger than the contradictions between capitalist countries. Theoretically, this is, of course, true. This is true not only now, at the present time, it was also true before the Second World War. And this was more or less understood by the leaders of the capitalist countries. And yet the Second World War began not with a war with the USSR, but with a war between capitalist countries. [p.177] Why? Because, firstly, the war with the USSR,
        as with a socialist country, is more dangerous for capitalism than a war between capitalist countries, for if a war between capitalist countries raises the question only of the predominance of such and such capitalist countries over other capitalist countries, then a war with the USSR must necessarily raise the question
        about the existence of capitalism itself..."
        1. +2
          12 June 2019 17: 19
          Quote: Minato2020
          Few people understand the nature of the origin of electricity.
          However, everyone uses electricity and no one has canceled Kirchhoff’s rules.

          Dear, I understand why Shpakovsky liked your comment so much: you, like him, suffer from scolding. You took a quote from Stalin’s work and make the wrong conclusion that Stalin is not enthusiastic about maxism, and if you read the paragraph above this quote, you would see that Stalin criticizes not Marx, but historians who are trying to apply the “KIRHOFF RULE” to "THEORIES OF SOCIALISM".
          1. -2
            12 June 2019 18: 21
            Quote: Alexander Green (Alexander)
            Dear, I understand why Shpakovsky liked your comment so much: you, like him, suffer from scolding. You took a quote from Stalin's work and make the wrong conclusion that Stalin was not enthusiastic about maxism...


            Perhaps he didn’t express himself too clearly, because with a quote from J. Stalin he wanted to show how the leader of a rather large country (1/6 of the world’s landmass) is trying to convey to the leadership not to delve into the study of Marxism, but to create his own socialist system from scratch. For example, the cost was subsequently calculated using calculation - there is no trace of this in Marxism.
            1. +2
              12 June 2019 21: 35
              Quote: Minato2020
              with a quote from J. Stalin I wanted to show how the leader of a rather large country (1/6 of the world's landmass) is trying to convey to the leadership not to delve into the study of Marxism

              Yes-ah, no one on the forum has ever thought of such a DEEP thought.

              Quote: Minato2020
              For example, the cost was subsequently calculated using calculation - there is no trace of this in Marxism.

              And before this one too. I don't remember that anyone else on the forum could confuse POLITICAL ECONOMY with ECONOMY.
              1. 0
                14 June 2019 02: 36
                Quote: Alexander Green
                ...I don’t remember that anyone else on the forum could confuse POLITICAL ECONOMY with ECONOMY.


                This is because they stopped teaching Marxism-Leninism and we have to use the Internet. And there they write all sorts of things, for example:
                The essence of the entire teaching of K. Marx is that economics determines everything else.
                And within the economy, K. Marx puts capital at the forefront.
                That is why Marx's main work is called Capital.
                What is capital according to K. Mars? Capital is what creates wealth.

                K. Marx divides the entire development of humanity into the following stages:
                1) Primitive communal society
                2) Slave society
                3) Feudal society or system
                4) Capitalist - bourgeois
                5) Proletarian revolution and developed communist society.
                6)

                2) Slave-owning society is the first stage of civilization, when capital is made up of slaves - there is simply nothing else.
                PS At that stage there was no technology yet. Wealth (capital) is slaves.

                3) The next stage of human development is called feudal. A “feud” is a piece of land, which is what began to define capital under feudalism - the possession of land property.
                PS Craftsmen appear. Wealth (capital) - slaves (serfs), land ownership.

                4) If the transition from a slave society to a feudal one happened unnoticed over hundreds of years, then the transition from a feudal society to a capitalist system occurred quickly and violently. It was then that this word appeared "revolution", meaning a radical revolution in the state and society. This was accompanied by the cutting off of the heads of kings and other nobility.
                That is, the meaning of the bourgeois capitalist revolution and replacement of the feudal system was the physical elimination of representatives of feudalism.
                5) Proletarian revolution. Proletarian - because the proletariat is deprived of the means of production.

                K. Marx in his teaching pointed out that the third type of capital, in addition to slaves and real estate in the era of industrial development, became those he named means of production, well, that is, plants, factories and the like.
                At the present stage at the beginning of the XNUMXst century, the fourth type of capital has become the possession of information. Nowadays, possessing information has begun to cost money, and a lot of it.
                1. 0
                  14 June 2019 02: 44
                  The history of the emergence of Marxism in the Russian Empire (from the Internet)

                  For 200 years, a geopolitical war called the “Great Game” was waged between the Russian and British empires https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Great_Game
                  Britain made a “knight’s move” and, under the guise of the teachings of K. Marx, propagated in Tsarist Russia the idea of ​​mass murders of representatives of the aristocracy, nobility and others, because in fact this is just a verbal balancing act - the dictatorship of the proletariat is said, but murder, terrorism, genocide of the population is done.
                  The militants were trained mainly outside the Republic of Ingushetia. In 1905 there was the debut of militants and terrorists, in 1917 there was a continuation. Thus, Russia in 1917 was beheaded, deprived of the ability to defend itself, then the invasion of foreign troops under a plausible pretext, occupation, repression.
                  The population of the Republic of Ingushetia was destroyed under plausible pretexts, the rest had to work for soup, everything that was of value to the invaders was taken out of Russia.

                  As the communists once said, “Marxism-Leninism is an eternal teaching because it is true.”
                  K. Marx wrote that after the bourgeois revolution there should come a proletarian revolution, and after the seizure of power - the notorious "proletarian revolution" - the only form of social life will be communism. Which is that, as was said openly, “everything will be divided equally,” including slaves, who will be called proletarians.
                  But the central idea of ​​K. Marx is that there will be communism, but only for those who remain - for the “golden billion”. And everything will be divided equally among those who remain, including the slaves (the so-called proletarians).
                  This division was called "war communism"
                  http://historykratko.com/politika-voennogo-kommunizma
                  However, in the USSR communism was implemented for the entire population of Russia. This is the essence of I. Stalin’s specific crime. Stalin has long been gone and everything is returning to normal - only the golden youth will remain, who will divide everything equally among themselves.
                  1. +1
                    14 June 2019 22: 46
                    Quote: Minato2020
                    But the central idea of ​​K. Marx is that there will be communism, but only for those who remain - for the “golden billion”. And everything will be divided equally among those who remain, including the slaves (the so-called proletarians).
                    This division was called "war communism"

                    Where did you read such nonsense? You cannot teach political economy from cheat sheets; the current bourgeoisie wrote them specifically for the lazy, so that there would be more poor students, so that no one would understand what CAPITAL is.

                    So you, after reading them, are mistaken in declaring that slaves are capital. The first capital was trading and usurious capital.

                    Means of production (factory buildings, machines, tools, raw materials, materials, etc.) become capital only when they act as a means of exploiting hired workers.

                    Capital is an advanced value, which, as a result of the exploitation of hired workers, brings surplus value, i.e. capital according to Marx presupposes wage labor.
                    1. +1
                      16 June 2019 17: 45
                      I read different authors, for example K. Semin. Understanding what's what without knowing the basics is quite difficult.
                      However, there are simpler explanations on the Internet, for example on YouTube
                      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NdypvlzUTz8
                      1. +1
                        16 June 2019 22: 09
                        Quote: Minato2020
                        Understanding what's what without knowing the basics is quite difficult.

                        Dear, you need to study. read classics and Soviet textbooks, especially from the Stalin era. and not internet nonsense. Read K. Marx's "Critique of the Gotha Program", and V.I. Lenin's "State and Revolution"..
                        There are a lot of correct materials on the site https://work-way.com
                      2. +1
                        16 June 2019 23: 16
                        Quote: Alexander Green

                        Dear, you need to study. read classics and Soviet textbooks, preferably from the Stalin era. and not internet nonsense. Read K. Marx's "Critique of the Gotha Program", and V.I. Lenin's "State and Revolution"..
                        There are a lot of correct materials on the site https://work-way.com


                        Thanks for the link, I took note of something - About genetics. May 10.05.2019, XNUMX
                        https://work-way.com/blog/2019/05/10/o-genetike/
  52. -4
    11 June 2019 07: 15
    Quote: Undecim
    And I don’t want to consider alternatives at all, where we would have been if not for this agreement.

    You also didn’t reach the end of the article? Too many letters?
    1. 0
      11 June 2019 23: 41
      You know that for me the number of letters is not an obstacle.
  53. +5
    11 June 2019 09: 20
    Quote: Corn
    It is in topics like these that the “red patriots” reveal their true colors.

    In such topics, “God’s chosen ones” reveal their true colors:

  54. -1
    11 June 2019 09: 32
    [b]Operator/b] I’m sick of you, Vyacheslav - you should actually run ahead of the locomotive and demand that all Poles be punished for their activity in the genocide of Jews on Polish territory, and you are sad that the Red Army, as part of the implementation of a secret protocol, saved lives the overwhelming number of Jews in Western Ukraine and Western Belarus.[/quote]
    What does this have to do with me and the genocide of Jews on Polish territory? What do I have to do with him?
    1. -1
      11 June 2019 11: 42
      kalibr (Vyacheslav), I seem to have found the answer to the question that is “tormenting” you. You touched on an interesting topic and it seems that out of all the comments you and (partially, me too) no one was convinced. Everyone says that the leaders of other countries were no better and did the same, or even worse. And so it is. But they did not try to build a new society, therefore they did not set themselves the goal of changing. Then comparison with them makes no sense.
      However, to answer your question about principles:
      Start of quote
      “Plato is my friend, but truth is dearer,” said the ancient sage, and we often quote these beautiful words to emphasize: principles play a paramount role in our lives. However, the logical consequence of this statement is the ability to easily sacrifice friends, family, one’s own internal integrity, and finally, in the name of certain principles... In other words, the more expensive the truth, the cheaper friends are. However, the opposite option is no better: for the sake of friendly (option: family, party, corporate) relationships, do not take into account your principles (truth, law, justice). Choosing between good and bad is a simple matter, but how to decide between two true values?

      Of course, principles are different - just like friends. If a friend cannot understand our desire to be consistent (even if our principles are questionable or obviously wrong), then is he a friend to us? But the price of principles that place abstract ideas above living people is not high. If only because, ultimately, ideas serve people, and not vice versa.

      Beliefs, principles, values ​​are very important to us. They provide inner support in themselves, help maintain stability under life’s storms, and a sense of their “I”. However, in order to grow and change (and this is sometimes necessary for adults too), we have to get out of the old belief system that restricts movement and breathing and develop a new one - according to a new standard. And often it is the conflict of beliefs with loyalty to friendship that serves as the impetus for such growth and change. It is not so important how exactly this conflict is resolved - the potential for growth lies in its painful experience and awareness (although there are not always clear-cut solutions).

      Polish psychologist and psychiatrist Kazimierz Dabrowski revealed the inevitability and even the necessity of positive disintegration - the destruction of old structures so that new ones can take their place. However, disintegration becomes truly positive only at the moment when, without a new level of understanding, we cannot solve an important life problem.

      Hence the paradox: you can give up your principles precisely when you feel that you cannot. And if this is a genuine sacrifice for the sake of something more important, it is not destructive for our personality, rather the opposite. But serene opportunism, when it is easy and pleasant to sacrifice principles, is dangerous. After all, no one is immune from the fact that one day we will only be able to find support within ourselves. Unless, of course, she made an exchange...

      Dmitry Leontiev
      Doctor of Psychological Sciences, Professor of Moscow State University. Lomonosov
      End quote
  55. +4
    11 June 2019 10: 08
    Quote: kalibr
    What does this have to do with me and the genocide of Jews on Polish territory?

    If you associate yourself with the Poles, then everything in your article is logical bully
  56. +5
    11 June 2019 10: 58
    A lot of stubborn hysterics write about the pact - both in the comments, and the article itself is hysterical.
    I want to repeat the words of Puchkov (Goblin) close to the original
    Secret protocols are secret because they are not intended to be made public. And this is an international norm. Very often political agreements are accompanied by such protocols. The British are very fond of them, and they often act as instigators of the exaggeration of this topic. For example, with Japan, Turkey, France, Germany, the USA, Poland, Greece and others, they signed such protocols aimed directly at the detriment of the Russian state.
    But the funny thing is that the content of the protocol, which was so advertised by Rezun and other provocateurs, turned out to be far from aggressive.
  57. +5
    11 June 2019 11: 13
    The West is very hurt by this non-aggression pact. The dog they bred to attack the USSR began to bite its Western owners. Together with the USSR, I had to destroy my beloved rabid dog.
  58. -5
    11 June 2019 11: 15
    Quote: Operator
    If you associate yourself with the Poles, then everything in your article is logical

    Why do I associate myself with the Poles, where is this in the article?
    1. +2
      11 June 2019 11: 32
      Quote: kalibr
      Why do I associate myself with the Poles, where is this in the article?

      And who do you associate yourself with - is it really with the Russians, who benefited from pitting Hitler against his Western sponsors (with the subsequent unambiguous transition of the sponsors to the side of the USSR) and the withdrawal of Japan from the game?
      1. +2
        11 June 2019 12: 56
        Operator, I don’t know about you, but I don’t like the expression “play off”, something sounds alien in it.
      2. -6
        11 June 2019 12: 59
        Andrey! Why do I always owe something? To associate oneself with someone, for example... Well, why is “a poet in Russia always more than a poet”? Why can’t you just take it and give information without associating yourself with anyone?
        1. +4
          11 June 2019 13: 44
          Because: “it is impossible to live in society and be free from society” (C), classic of Marxism - Leninism laughing
          1. -5
            11 June 2019 15: 48
            It’s very possible if... you behave correctly.
  59. -4
    11 June 2019 11: 15
    Quote: Kostadinov
    The dog they bred to attack the USSR began to bite its Western owners. Together with the USSR, I had to destroy my beloved rabid dog.

    Yes, that's right, you're right!
    1. 0
      11 June 2019 12: 34
      Quote: Kostadinov
      your favorite mad dog.

      the dog wasn't always mad
      Under Lipinski and other members of the old government, Poland behaved smartly and prudently and the way England wanted and they even gave it a bite from Czechoslovakia, but the government was replaced by some inadequate people who managed to quarrel with the Germans over Danzig and did a lot of other things like the Jewish Holocaust. In general, everything did not go according to plan.
      The British are blamed for not helping Poland.
      Has anyone ever wondered why? The Poles just went crazy.
  60. +2
    11 June 2019 11: 15
    It turns out that the USSR, which had previously proclaimed the renunciation of annexations and secret diplomacy publicly, of necessity... returned to this “tsarist” policy again, which was in clear contradiction with the theory and practice of Marxist-Leninist teaching

    Let me remind you that all of Poland was part of the Republic of Ingushetia for many years, and it would be very useful for you to know that the main part of it was not “captured”, but bought from Sweden.
    So what kind of annexation are we talking about? It's the same with Bessarabia. It was part of the Republic of Ingushetia, and not conquered, but received as a result of international agreements. The same thing with Finland - it was all bought out.
    Where did the author see at least 1 episode of annexation?
    Next, the division of Poland. The USSR sent troops into eastern Poland after the Polish government had already left the country. This is an important point. There were small episodes of resistance - mainly young officers duped by nationalist propaganda.
    It turns out that the USSR did not declare war on either Poland or its government, but simply took control of a territory engulfed in chaos and partially captured by the Germans. A territory that until recently was part of a single state.

    and lastly, about the departure from Marxist-Leninist teachings.
    In the 20s, it turned out that Marx made a serious mistake in theory - the working class does not have to rebel everywhere, its capital can bribe, as it did in Germany or the USA or France.
    Therefore, history itself has already gone beyond theory. And Stalin, as one of the most consistent Leninists, did not implement the policy of world revolution (which it turns out there is no) and not the policy of military communism, as a temporary measure of restoration after the provisional government, not the NEP, again a forced temporary consequence of events, but finally began precisely to what Lenin wanted. And I did it as soon as it became possible
    And we all know how the state of the USSR economy took off like a rocket with this policy.
    The whole world went to learn about this miracle.
    1. +1
      11 June 2019 12: 21
      Quote: yehat
      Let me remind you that all of Poland was part of the Republic of Ingushetia for many years

      Not all of them. Only the Duchy of Warsaw, which is also the Kingdom of Poland.

      Quote: yehat
      the main part of it was not “captured”, but bought from Sweden

      Confused with the Baltic States?
      Quote: yehat
      The same thing with Finland - it was all bought out.

      Why did you decide this? Was the Friedrichham Treaty confused with the Nystad Treaty?
    2. +5
      11 June 2019 15: 52
      Quote: yehat
      The same thing with Finland - it was all bought out.

      Finland was not redeemed.
      The Grand Duchy of Finland was collected and created by Alexander I from the provinces transferred by Sweden "in bulk" according to the Friedrichsgam Peace Treaty. With the addition of the Finland (Vyborg) province, which belonged to the Russian Empire (transferred to Russia in 1721 according to the Nishtadt Peace Treaty).
      In fact, the Russian Tsar gave the Finns a state - having established a hotbed of separatism near the capital with its own authorities, laws (“On crimes committed in Russia by the Finns, and in Finland by Russian inhabitants”), state languages, a bank, currency, customs, and a passport service , police and army.
      Russian educational institutions were not equated with Finnish ones, due to which even Finnish citizens who graduated from Russian educational institutions, at least special ones, were not accepted for various positions in the Finnish service. Finns who completed courses in Russian educational institutions, except for military ones, did not receive special rights for military service, which were given only to Finns who graduated from Finnish educational institutions.

      And for all this, the Finns paid a hundredfold to the Russians in 1918.
  61. +3
    11 June 2019 11: 16
    Revolutionary slogans and real life have little in common. Revolutionary slogans are bright pictures of a wonderful future, goodness, justice and universal happiness, intended to stimulate and excite the masses, bringing them into a state of euphoria. Real life, real state building, descends from the sky to the sinful earth, where you often need to do dirty work, very far from bright images. In principle, we see this now - the election slogans of all kinds of parties and their real activities in the event of coming to power - real life always takes its toll, destroying castles in the sky. Therefore, condemning the leadership of the USSR for moving away from revolutionary slogans is quite naive (it’s like condemning a young man in love because, after getting married, he never gave his girlfriend all the stars in the sky that were promised to her) - the country’s leadership acted from the real interests of the state, and not made up of wonderful ideas, suitable only for turning the heads of college girls and pale young men with burning eyes. Real politics, alas, is cynical, but it won’t work out any other way - no less cynical neighbors and “partners” will devour you. And this has always been the case. I remembered the joke that Ancient Rome always officially fought defensive wars, as a result of which the huge Roman Empire arose.
    1. 0
      12 June 2019 05: 51
      There is a story by Karl Capek about the Roman Empire just on the topic
  62. +2
    11 June 2019 11: 54
    Quote: mikh-korsakov
    One of the favorite tricks of shameless liars from the liberal camp is the assertion that Stalin, supplying Germany with raw materials, received nothing in return. Before the war, my father was sent to Holland to receive the warships that Germany built for the USSR in Dutch shipyards. He was interned there on June 22, 1944.
    Not the best example.
    Firstly, I believe that you should read not “Interned there June 22, 1944,” but “Interned there June 22, 1941.” . So ?
    And secondly, the example you gave just shows that, alas, we never received our own ships (built for us) from Germany. hi
  63. +6
    11 June 2019 12: 38


    I thought such documents should look something like this
    1. +1
      11 June 2019 17: 02
      Come on, don’t find fault, it’ll do for the people, they’ll grab it.
  64. +2
    11 June 2019 12: 49
    Quote: Campanella
    Soviet Bolshevism ... do you even understand what you are writing about.

    But there were no other options for Bolshevism. It was only later that variants of socialism appeared: “developed, with a human face, etc.,” and at the beginning there was October 1917
  65. -4
    11 June 2019 13: 00
    Quote: Nikolay87

    Nikolai87 (Nikolai) Today, 11: 42
    0
    kalibr (Vyacheslav), I seem to have found the answer to the question that is “tormenting” you.

    Thank you! But there are no questions that torment me. The pension is small - yes!
    1. 0
      12 June 2019 11: 49
      Don't you think you are overestimating the value of this document? Following principles (even Lenin's) does not have to be blind and thoughtless. He set a guideline and we tried to stick to it.
      “Every extreme is bad; everything good and useful, taken to an extreme, can become and even, beyond a certain limit, necessarily becomes evil and harmful” - Lenin
  66. -2
    11 June 2019 13: 06
    Quote: Krasnoyarsk
    Is the site administration Russian?

    There was already an article from her on this topic, where she admitted everything - go to the search engine...
  67. -7
    11 June 2019 13: 09
    Quote: Nyrobsky
    Here, in addition to the commentary, I found the coat of arms of the USSR that can be used as a stamp and make an imprint on paper, attached it to A4 paper of about 1994 with a yellowish background, scribbled with a pencil (since there is no old typewriter with a ribbon at hand) the words "secret protocol" - That's it, comrade "kalibr (Vyacheslav)", you can start to believe.

    All this is deeply indifferent to me.
  68. -4
    11 June 2019 13: 27
    Quote: at84432384
    This is a remake

    Do you know that for sure?
  69. -5
    11 June 2019 15: 42
    Quote: ccsr
    If you approach the choice of reliable sources of information, then you can imagine what nonsense you can write in your textbooks, guided by hatred of the Soviet past. I feel sorry for those who study in your textbooks, because they will have a distorted view of our history.

    No need to imagine anything, why fantasies - you open and read, do you not know how to use the Internet?
  70. -1
    11 June 2019 15: 46
    Quote: vvvjak
    In my opinion, Molotov could have signed (let alone written) this “opus” only under the influence of force majeure circumstances, in the form of an NKVD officer with a pistol at the back of his head.

    Quite possible. Was your wife sitting? She was sitting... that's all!
  71. +3
    11 June 2019 16: 04
    Quote: vladcub
    But there were no other options for Bolshevism. It was only later that variants of socialism appeared: “developed, with a human face, etc.,” and at the beginning there was October 1917

    what a mess you have in your head! it's just awful.
    and there was no February 1917?
    But there was no revolution of 1905?
    and there was no defense of Petrograd in 18 and a coup with the capture of Kronstadt and the arsenals of the fleet?
    What the hell is socialism - here the question was whether there would be a state at all.
    The Bolsheviks were saved by decrees - on peace, on land, etc., simple and understandable, which made it possible to gain the support of the population in this chaos. There was no theory or politics - just simple concrete rules.
    land - to the peasants with a dose of healthy populism.
    Did you know that in October 17, it was not the All-Union Communist Party of Bolsheviks that was in charge, but the Revolutionary Military Council, where there were also Essers.
    And “variants” of Bolshevism appeared only after the introduction of a brutal dictatorship, victory in the most difficult civil war and a respite in the form of the NEP.
    And when the option appeared, they began to build it.
  72. -5
    11 June 2019 18: 06
    Quote: Alexander Green
    And you read the speeches of the late State Duma deputy Ilyukhin, where he very well describes how fakes were made, and the former editor of the Duel newspaper Mukhin describes well all the flaws of the "specialists" who participated in this case. So for every sage, there really is enough simplicity.

    What should I read about Ilyukhin when I personally talked to him and... put him in a decent puddle during his speech at our PPI. I once wrote about this in an article here... A person who does not know how to conduct a full discussion in an academic environment is not worth much. And how they gave him a ride in Penza in our gubernatorial elections was brilliant. We warned you - they'll give you a ride! Well...it's me. So... it stopped.
    1. +1
      11 June 2019 19: 03
      Quote: kalibr
      What should I read about Ilyukhin when I personally talked to him and... put him in a decent puddle during his speech at our PPI.

      Did you already discuss this fake with him, or some issue not related to this fake? If yes, then provide your evidence that this is not a fake - they threw too many black balls at you here, but you pretend that it doesn’t mean anything.
      1. +1
        12 June 2019 05: 46
        Quote: ccsr
        Quote: kalibr
        What should I read about Ilyukhin when I personally talked to him and... put him in a decent puddle during his speech at our PPI.

        Did you already discuss this fake with him, or some issue not related to this fake? If yes, then provide your evidence that this is not a fake - they threw too many black balls at you here, but you pretend that it doesn’t mean anything.

        What evidence might there be? Video only!!!!! And he’s not there!!!!
    2. +2
      11 June 2019 20: 22
      Quote: kalibr
      What should I read about Ilyukhin when I personally talked to him and... put him in a decent puddle during his speech at our PPI. I once wrote about this in an article here... A person who does not know how to conduct a full discussion in an academic environment is not worth much.

      You are in vain... You definitely need to read Ilyukhin, because... He is an expert in his field, and the fact that he is not a speaker means that not everyone can be an eloquent speaker.
  73. -5
    11 June 2019 18: 15
    Alexander Greene And all of them here who write do not understand anything about Marxism. Can’t you see it yourself? Ignorant people with many 0000... But they write. Read, remember, the Strugatskys’ story “Predatory Things of the Century”. There’s just a whole paragraph about these! You have your own cockroaches in your head, but this is due to age and, apparently, energy is poorly absorbed. But at least you know something, yes... and here... 80 and 20 in one word!
    1. +1
      11 June 2019 20: 17
      Quote: kalibr
      And all of them here who write do not understand anything about Marxism. Can’t you see it yourself? Ignorant people with many 0000...

      It’s okay, the main thing is that they are interested in it, and knowledge will come. “It’s not the gods who burn the pots!”
      1. 0
        12 June 2019 05: 43
        Quote: Alexander Green
        Quote: kalibr
        And all of them here who write do not understand anything about Marxism. Can’t you see it yourself? Ignorant people with many 0000...

        It’s okay, the main thing is that they are interested in it, and knowledge will come. “It’s not the gods who burn the pots!”

        What won't you do for a salary? Really, Alexander? Is it possible to argue even with ignoramuses? The Russian ignoramus is senseless and merciless! Oh! It's hard work dragging a hippopotamus out of the swamp!
    2. 0
      12 June 2019 17: 53
      Quote: kalibr
      Alexander Greene And all of them here who write do not understand anything about Marxism. Can’t you see it yourself? Ignorant people with many 0000... But they write. Read, remember, the Strugatskys’ story “Predatory Things of the Century”. There’s just a whole paragraph about these!


      Marxism is not just the last century - it is the century before last.
      Excellent knowledge of Marxism did not really help teachers of Marxism-Leninism during the formation of capitalism in the Russian Federation.
      To understand the essence of Marxism, it is not necessary to attend lectures and read primary sources.
      It is enough to turn on the TV to understand that for 100% of the profit the capitalist is ready to do a lot and some oligarchs have been seen in illegal actions.
      It is not at all necessary to take notes on I. Stalin, who studied Marxism, to understand what the merging of transnational corporations (TNCs) and state systems leads to
      Everything has already been described by science fiction writers back in the last century.
      It is enough to read the financial wars of R. Asprin to understand how the armies of states will be at the beck and call of corporate military PMCs.
      It is enough to read A. Asimov to understand where this world is heading
      Or at least I. Efremov’s “The Hour of the Bull”, A. Belyaev’s “Air Seller”, but not the Strugatskys.
      A. and B. Strugatsky were not bad when they wrote at the level of the collective (unconscious) between them. They managed to pump up two levels quite well - progress and the inertia of systems leading to destruction. But collective creativity also has disadvantages - when the synchronicity disappeared, it was necessary to use previously written blanks and insert them into neither the village nor the city. Hence the failures in creativity, the tortured continuation of the started theme.
      When only one brother remained, creativity disappeared. In general, A. and B. Strugatsky are not akin to the luminaries of science fiction. Even the half-educated front-line soldier V. Shefner wrote more acceptable fantasy on a social theme. Most likely, the brothers had a “furry paw” and therefore in the USSR they were pushed into publishing houses. Against the background of the lack of book literature, the works of A. and B. Strugatsky sold out with a bang.
      1. +1
        12 June 2019 21: 46
        Quote: Minato2020
        Marxism is not just the last century - it is the century before last... It’s enough to read A. Azimov to understand where this world is heading, Or at least I. Efremov’s “The Hour of the Bull”, A. Belyaev’s “Air Seller”...

        Sorry, but I don’t know how else I can help you....I can only recommend Star Wars...
        1. 0
          14 June 2019 01: 26
          Quote: Alexander Green (Alexander)
          Sorry, but I don’t know how else I can help you... I can only recommend Star Wars...


          The Star Wars films are made dynamically and spectacularly, and you can read the books once and forget which shelf you put them on. The Star Wars sequel is not worth buying. I would prefer to re-read Sergei Snegov’s trilogy “People Like Gods”.
  74. -4
    11 June 2019 20: 54
    Quote: Alexander Green
    and knowledge will come.

    "Mom will come! No, my mother will come!" - bickering between small children in kindergarten. It’s not enough to be interested. We need to study. But there is neither time, nor strength, nor desire for this. Russian peppers and VO are much more interesting.
    1. +3
      11 June 2019 21: 28
      Quote: kalibr
      "Mom will come! No, my mother will come!" - bickering between small children in kindergarten. It’s not enough to be interested. We need to study.

      Sorry, but you are the one behaving like an offended child from a kindergarten because you are being criticized for an article....
      ... And learning something is only effective when it begins with interest. What's the use of you studying MacRxism? You still didn’t become a Marxist, because your interest was not in Marxism, but in how to make money with its help...
      And I was a techie, I taught the humanities only because I had to, but when perestroika began, I wanted to figure everything out myself, and that’s where I plunged into Marxism, and now the classics of Marxism are my favorite writers.
      1. -6
        12 June 2019 06: 28
        I see what happened in the end... And what you wrote is “I’m offended by the criticism.” Here you are wrong. Is there really even one decent “critic” here? You can’t be offended by people like that...Reading their verses, like yours, is entertainment for me...
        1. +2
          12 June 2019 17: 26
          Quote: kalibr
          . And what you wrote is “I’m offended by the criticism.” Here you are wrong. Is there really even one decent “critic” here? You can’t be offended by people like that...Reading their verses, like yours, is entertainment for me...

          Criticism is generally not chocolate, and every normal person reacts correctly to it, but something strange is happening to you, consult a doctor, you are beginning to experience masochistic deviations.
    2. +1
      14 June 2019 08: 56
      Quote: kalibr
      Quote: Alexander Green
      and knowledge will come.

      "Mom will come! No, my mother will come!" - bickering between small children in kindergarten. It’s not enough to be interested. We need to study. But there is neither time, nor strength, nor desire for this. Russian peppers and VO are much more interesting.

      And I heard this from children:
      And your mother forgot about you! crying
      crying crying And your mother left you!
      And your mother won’t be allowed to leave work! Aaaaaaaah! crying
      This is how children scared each other
  75. -5
    11 June 2019 20: 57
    Quote: Alexander Green
    and the fact that he is not a speaker

    Narrowness in words, narrowness in thoughts! Not talkative means not smart!
    1. +4
      11 June 2019 21: 19
      Quote: kalibr
      Narrowness in words, narrowness in thoughts! Not talkative means not smart!

      What nonsense? A true specialist always speaks concisely and to the point, while talkers are mostly all idle talk, they can talk for hours about nothing, remember how they told us about perestroika?
      1. +2
        12 June 2019 05: 34
        Quote: Alexander Green
        Quote: kalibr
        Narrowness in words, narrowness in thoughts! Not talkative means not smart!

        What nonsense? A true specialist always speaks concisely and to the point, while talkers are mostly all idle talk, they can talk for hours about nothing, remember how they told us about perestroika?

        Interesting expressions----verbalization, speech flow, speech diarrhea......I didn’t know it was about the mind.
      2. -5
        12 June 2019 06: 27
        I remember! And it happened!
        1. +2
          12 June 2019 17: 28
          Quote: kalibr
          I remember! And it happened!

          You understand that you can deceive people once, maybe twice, but by the third time they will not succumb to deception, so there is still more to come...
  76. -3
    11 June 2019 21: 02
    Quote: Reptiloid
    Is it you or not you, or your literary hero???

    Well, yes, you are the author of the story about the multiplicity of my local doubles. But you just had to read the site rules. This is prohibited by them!
    1. +1
      12 June 2019 05: 29
      Quote: kalibr
      Quote: Reptiloid
      Is it you or not you, or your literary hero???

      Well, yes, you are the author of the story about the multiplicity of my local doubles. But you just had to read the site rules. This is prohibited by them!

      Vyacheslav, either you are confused, or you are deliberately distorting and exaggerating. I ---- never wrote such a thing. I saw it last time, in Oleinikov’s article, 2 months ago. What about you and the other, who forgot, this and that.....
      But this is not so, because it is of no use. But ---- there may well be apprentices, assistants in writing articles, and what is forbidden about that?
      And being a literary hero means that in your articles you are not equal to the real thing.
      THE MAP IS NOT EQUAL TO THE TERRITORY
  77. -5
    11 June 2019 21: 06
    Quote: Krasnoyarsk
    I'm sure it's fake!

    You need to contact the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and demand an examination, and from representatives of different countries. This is a serious matter.
    1. +2
      13 June 2019 19: 59
      Do you have an official statement from the Russian Ministry of Foreign Affairs (Historical and Documentary Department) that he provided these documents or has anything to do with them?
      On their official website about this pact everything is standard:
      Until 1989, Moscow officially denied the availability of the original protocols, which made it possible to question the reliability of the texts published in Western sources. In 1989, at the II Congress of People's Deputies of the USSR, the Commission on Political and Legal Assessment of the Soviet-German Non-Aggression Treaty, chaired by A.N. Yakovlev, made public and introduced the secret protocol of August 23, 1939 into official use. * Moreover, in the resolution Congress pointed out that "the originals of the protocol were not found in either the Soviet or foreign archives. However ... the examination of copies, cards and other documents, the compliance of subsequent events with the contents of the protocol confirm the fact of its signing and existence. ” It was also noted that if the content of the non-aggression pact “did not contradict the norms of international law and the contractual practice of states,” the secret protocol “was, from a legal point of view, in conflict with the sovereignty and independence of a number of third countries.” Having approved the conclusions of the Commission, the congress condemned the secret agreements with Germany and declared them “legally insolvent and invalid from the moment of their signing” *

      In 1990 and 1992 texts of closed protocols were published in the editions of the Russian Ministry of Foreign Affairs “Year of the crisis, 1938-1939.” and “Documents of the Foreign Policy of the USSR, 1939” from copies stored in the archives of the Ministry.

      In 2002, the A.N. Yakovlev Commission announced that the original documents “were found in the archives of the CPSU Central Committee.” In 2003, based on them, a publication was prepared in the journal “New and Contemporary History.”*
  78. -1
    12 June 2019 06: 25
    Quote: Reptiloid
    What about you and the other, who forgot, this and that.....

    Then it is clear!
    1. 0
      12 June 2019 08: 06
      there may be literary blacks. ? Back-up dancer, sing-along. ....
      And what? This is the norm of our time, what can we say about it?
  79. -4
    12 June 2019 09: 36
    Quote: Reptiloid
    It's hard work dragging a hippopotamus out of the swamp!

    Here you are completely right. He is heavy, and also stubborn beyond measure...
  80. -4
    12 June 2019 13: 04
    Nikolay, in my opinion, everything in the article is written and chewed up simply to the point of indecency. It seems that this is usually due to a hangover...
    1. The comment was deleted.
  81. +2
    12 June 2019 14: 18
    Quote: kalibr
    Nikolay, in my opinion, everything in the article is written and chewed up simply to the point of indecency. It seems that this is usually due to a hangover...

    So you are not interested in the discussion on your article? Are you just happy with what you wrote?
  82. +2
    12 June 2019 16: 08
    The author's passage about the fact that if it were not for the Secret Protocol, Hitler would not have attacked Poland (Without this protocol, Hitler would not have started a war with Poland) is complete liberal nonsense!!! Who can fully prepare the country and its army for an attack on its neighbor in a week!? Before spewing out pseudo-scientific nonsense, the author could have asked how long it takes just to develop a plan for an attack on a neighboring country, plus all the “physical” preparation for such an attack???
  83. 0
    12 June 2019 17: 17
    Quote: nnz226
    The author's passage about the fact that if it were not for the Secret Protocol, Hitler would not have attacked Poland (Without this protocol, Hitler would not have started a war with Poland) is complete liberal nonsense!!! Who can fully prepare the country and its army for an attack on its neighbor in a week!? Before spewing out pseudo-scientific nonsense, the author could have asked how long it takes just to develop a plan for an attack on a neighboring country, plus all the “physical” preparation for such an attack???

    And, that is, the USSR is responsible for Germany’s attack on Poland, since we, in this protocol, stipulated zones of demarcation of interests, thus freeing Germany’s hands?!?!?! And would we atone for this sin by disowning this protocol after Stalin’s death, thereby taking the blame upon ourselves?! To pay such a price for victory, and then come up with the idea that it’s our own fault. It's kind of surreal. Everywhere you look, there are always people to blame....
    1. +1
      13 June 2019 14: 25
      Quote: Nikolay87
      And, that is, the USSR was responsible for the German attack on Poland,

      Why on earth? We needed guarantees that Germany would not advance further east, approaching the industrial and agricultural centers of the USSR. We did not receive such a guarantee from the Poles and “allies”. But they received it from the Germans, albeit in the form of secret protocols.
      Quote: Nikolay87
      thus freeing Germany's hands?

      Germany's hands were untied back in Munich. Only a full-fledged military treaty could bind them again, without those hooks, citing which the “allies” merged Czechoslovakia, dividing its territory between Germany and Poland. Those. as soon as German troops move into Polish territory, the USSR responds by declaring war on Germany and advancing its army in response, while neither Poland nor the “allies” will interfere with this. What the “allies” did not allow the USSR to do in the case of Czechoslovakia.
      Quote: Nikolay87
      And we would atone for this sin

      What sin? Against who? We were a strategic rival for both the bourgeoisie and the Germans. Our troops were barred from entering Europe, regardless of the reasons. If we had gone there, both the Germans and the “allies” would have rebelled against us. Initially, we were in a catastrophically losing situation - sitting within the old borders and preparing to repel German aggression on our territory. Those. the Germans occupy Poland and the Baltic states, and in response we can only declare mobilization and begin to transfer the economy to a war footing. At the same time, the Germans will choose when to attack us, right away, or in five years, when the old Soviet tanks, guns and aircraft, in the production of which we will fully invest, instead of developing and mastering new models, will turn into outdated, worthless scrap metal. But the bourgeoisie would be in chocolate. The brown threat is on a leash, the red one is in the dustbin of history. After which, you don’t have to bother with internal social policies that smooth out class contradictions and raise the standard of living of the country as a whole.
      Quote: Nikolay87
      It's kind of surreal. Everywhere you look, there are always people to blame....

      This is not surreal, this is politics. We lost the cold war. You have to pay for this.
  84. +6
    13 June 2019 09: 55
    Oh how the truth stings my eyes))
    they even minus those who spoke to the point
    Yes, you can’t wash a black goat white)))
    1. +1
      14 June 2019 00: 02
      Quote: denatured alcohol

      Oh how the truth stings my eyes))

      And where is the truth here?! belay
      Your arguments to the studio... so far nothing more than words.
      And people specifically talk about the fake nature of the so-called secret protocol...
      Such “originals” can be riveted into a wagon and a small cart, and it’s even easier in Photoshop...

      shl
      And Mr. Shpakovsky looks more like a descendant of immigrants from Poland than a caliber... have the genes hatched? belay
      What caliber is he...
  85. +1
    13 June 2019 11: 38
    An ambiguous article for me. With all due respect to the Author, I cannot completely agree with his opinion, although I understood the idea. Well, yes, we have freedom of opinion) So he, as the Author, knows better)))
  86. -1
    13 June 2019 14: 34
    Quote: brn521
    This is not surreal, this is politics. We lost the cold war. You have to pay for this.

    What does the Cold War have to do with it and what do we have to pay for?
  87. +2
    15 June 2019 19: 46
    There was a serious spelling mistake in the “secret additional protocol”: “both sides” instead of the correct “both sides”. Fake!
    1. -1
      16 June 2019 10: 39
      Quote: Dali
      And people specifically talk about the fake nature of the so-called secret protocol...

      Who are they? Is there any point in listening to them at all? All complaints to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs!
  88. -1
    16 June 2019 10: 37
    Quote: Krasnoyarsk
    I won't be able to distinguish a fake from the original. Like your fantasies on the theme of “knighthood”

    That's right - you can't!
  89. -1
    16 June 2019 10: 42
    Quote: Nikolay87
    So you are not interested in the discussion on your article? Are you just happy with what you wrote?

    Exactly! There are just one or two reasonable statements...
  90. -1
    16 June 2019 10: 44
    Quote: Alexander Green
    so there's still more to come...

    You have already fed me “breakfasts”... Everything is ahead and ahead, like the promise of communism in the USSR. Every time a little further....Yes?
  91. -1
    16 June 2019 10: 46
    Quote: Alexander Green
    a normal person reacts correctly to it

    It depends from whom and what kind.
  92. +1
    16 June 2019 15: 26
    The only thing that the pact gave was a “forefield” between the new and old border. But the frontier ceased to be such when the decision was made to deploy the main forces of the Red Army on the new border, and not on the Stalin line.
  93. The comment was deleted.
  94. -2
    19 June 2019 06: 03
    Quote: Alexander Green
    you begin to experience masochistic deviations.

    Why? A normal reaction to ignoramuses...
    1. +1
      4 July 2019 17: 54
      Quote: kalibr
      Quote: Alexander Green
      you begin to experience masochistic deviations.

      Why? A normal reaction to ignoramuses.

      Sorry, but this is just an abnormal reaction.
  95. The comment was deleted.
  96. +1
    22 July 2019 16: 14
    It seems like we’ve dotted all the i’s in this matter, but the author is “again, money for fish.” Describes what gallant gentlemen-diplomats the British and French were. If only Czechoslovakia had not been cut up, if there had been no plans for the Anglo-French invasion of Transcaucasia in 1939, if the English and French had not abandoned Poland, if Operation Unthinkable had not been developed in 1945. There is also a bad epigraph worn out from the Bolshevik declaration, which no one was going to implement, but was declared exclusively on the topic of “breaking the old world” for the ears of the working masses. “Western plutocracy,” as Stalin put it, but in fact liquidocracy, a historically formed symbiosis of “robber baron” and “usurer,” was the mortal enemy of Russia under any political system, under any government. And here Stalin was right a thousand times over. Straight from Omar Khayyam: “and it’s better to be with no one than with just anyone.” Yes, Germany was an “anti-Bolshevik”, or rather essentially anti-Russian, battering ram, fed by these same “Western democracies”. After the fact, these Secret Protocols are an action of the Soviet government necessary to protect state interests, and an effective action for the period 1939-1940. From a moral point of view (although diplomacy has a very conditional relationship to morality, and we did not invent “politician”), Soviet Russia had every right to conclude at least hundreds of such protocols, and it is not for fans of Western liberals to teach it. From a practical point of view. The protocols ensured an acceptable position for Germany during the Finnish War, at a minimum. In general, it’s funny to hear that the Soviets “do not comply with their own diplomatic principles” (which were once stated there). The offense of pickpockets is obvious when the client puts his hands into his own pockets at the wrong time. Diplomacy, oh my! In a brothel, but about high morals. To live like wolves, howl like a wolf - this Russian proverb is hundreds of years old, and there is no need to try to ride around us again on a crooked goat.
  97. 0
    15 August 2019 01: 15
    I read a couple of times what this Russophobe wrote..But I still didn’t understand what he wanted to say..Kick the dead Stalin? But Stalin is so great that even his enemies admitted it..And here is some kind of Shpakovsky...ugh...As always Shpakovsky and his ilk, Russophobes, are dumping a bunch of compromising evidence without even bothering to even briefly familiarize themselves with this bullshit. He pulled out some quotes somewhere, added his nonsense, and now... on you... Opus... Only one phrase “started trade deliveries to Germany” says that the author or a stupid ignorant person - what you don’t want to believe in... - or a liar talker After all, the preamble clearly states that the USSR is ready to conclude a pact with Germany subject to the signing of a trade agreement... But as it was presented - who will pay the most... And finally, my friend, you should familiarize yourself with the nomenclature of supplies. What Germany supplied us and what the USSR supplied it. Just don’t laugh yourself off. And the last thing is why you hate your country so much... However, I have doubts... about your citizenship...
  98. 0
    16 May 2020 16: 26
    I do not agree with the author about dissection during the time of Khrushchev. This had to be done subtly, skillfully, and Khrushchev cut from the shoulder. In particular, the USSR quarreled with China. I also do not agree with moralizing in foreign policy. Foreign policy is a cold calculation. Lenin wanted to live in an ideal world without “annexations and indemnities,” but reality turned out to be harsher. She is still just as cynical. So the moral assessments of the Pact are unreasonable, especially since the redivision of the world by the Pact did not end, it was followed by the Second World War. And Poland received German land, part of which the Poles considered illegally appropriated by the Prussians as a result of the war. The USSR, together with other countries, created an equilibrium world configuration. Now it is drifting, but I hope the United States is smart enough not to start a nuclear war on us.